Discuss amongst yourselves.

I thought it was an excellent episode :thumbsup: --definitely NOT filler material as the last two seem to have been.

Really I thought the opposite. This show was filler!
I didn't think it was a bad show just had a case of "Why" after it was over.

Max Bryant

I was riveted every moment!

Six is halucinating Baltar the same way he hallucinates her. The real Six is just as self-doubting and sappy as the real Baltar. And she hallucinates a Baltar that's as confident and arrogant as the Six he hallucinates. Excellent!

The Boomer psyche is irreversably human no matter what they try to do to make her a loyal Cylon.

We see the Cylons trying to pretend to be "normal" social beings by hanging in cafes, and anybody can see it's just plain creepy and forced.

Lucy Lawless!!!

And best of all, we find the two Cylon psyches who've had close personal dealings with humans came to love us! and they think the Cylons' genocidal philosophy is WRONG. And now they're the first two Cylon philosophical rebels. Not only rebels, but rebels in the position of "heroes" that the general Cylon population will listen to.

So while Baltar and his hallucinated Six look to be set to destroy the human fleet from within, now we see Six and her hallucinated Baltar set to destroy Cylon from within.

Meanwhile the "good" humans have taken a baby from its mother and father and faked its death. And handed the baby over to a serrogate mother who, I bet ya credits to Navy beans, is gonna turn out to be another Cylon.

So what about this was filler now? :)

Hmmm. I haven't had a problem with any of them yet! Any series is going to have some episodes that stand out or are more action oriented than others. But in Battlestar Galactica, the episodes that focus on character development are just as awesome to me. I still think it's the best show that's happened to the sci-fi genre in years because it goes beyond just spaceships flying and raygun shootouts and scores of aliens. It's simply good filmmaking. The other stuff is icing on the cake.

Great episode. It's amazing how good BSG can be when it's firing on all cylinders. Hopefully the slump is over.

I was riveted every moment!

Six is halucinating Baltar the same way he hallucinates her. The real Six is just as self-doubting and sappy as the real Baltar. And she hallucinates a Baltar that's as confident and arrogant as the Six he hallucinates. Excellent!

FWIW, this is the only show I get crabby about when I'm interrupted while watching it (even with the ability to pause and replay it :freak: ).

The mutual hallucinations are really an amazing twist. At first I thought it may seem a little forced or contrived but it sure seems to be leading to something. There's some sort of connection between Caprica Six and Baltar that we'll find out more about, I'll bet. Their cross-purposes are equally bizarre. It will be interesting to see how they play out.

I'll definitely be watching this one again (which, on the good episodes, has become a habit with me). :thumbsup:

Reminds me of this group of modelers. Group mutual hallucinations.I see a 1/350 TOS Enterprise on the shelf.

Meanwhile the "good" humans have taken a baby from its mother and father and faked its death.Put it in context.

This Cylon baby isn't a "real" baby, it's a science experiment. The characters see it that way, therefore there's no need to treat it with any sort of respect. Whether or not you see it that way is the beginnings of a whole religious and philosophical discussion that's too long and complicated to get into right now.

And handed the baby over to a serrogate mother who, I bet ya credits to Navy beans, is gonna turn out to be another Cylon.She's not a Cylon. There was dialogue to the effect that the surrogate mom's natural baby died soon after being born. If the surrogate mom was a Cylon, how did she have a baby when it's already been established that this Boomer/Helo baby is the first one?

Watch it again Monday night at 11.

Lucy Lawless!!!


Yeah! I like her a lot better with her NZ accent! :thumbsup:

Heh...wanna see her in a whole 'nother perspective?

Spider-Man - the montage sequence where they're getting the public reaction-type interviews with people about him - she's the punk rock chick...Guy with eight hands...sound hot.

Brilliant episode. I love the reversal between 6 and Baltar. It was nice to see Baltar driving for once. My favorite non-space battle episode ever. The baby?
The entire Cylon fleet would wipe out the remaining colonials if they knew the baby was still alive. There is nothing wrong with what they did with the baby.
Maybe 6 could check the neck strength of that baby?

2nd half of season two was not what I had hoped for. Don't really get the point in this episode. Cylons grow? Duh, I get it! I'm holding my breath for the 2 part season ender. I really want this show to be good but don't mind admiting when things seem off track. The mini-series blew me away and maybe got my expectations too high. I've been a loyal weekly viewer but perhaps that level of creativity is too much for a weekly SF program. I really want to see a season ender that will have me counting the days untill season 3!

And best of all, we find the two Cylon psyches who've had close personal dealings with humans came to love us! and they think the Cylons' genocidal philosophy is WRONG. And now they're the first two Cylon philosophical rebels. Not only rebels, but rebels in the position of "heroes" that the general Cylon population will listen to.


I'm suprised to hear that some didn't care for this episode. It happens to be a very significant episode in terms of charactor development.

It probably was one of the best episodes of the season aside from some of the Pegasus stuff.

I do hate to say it though, what I quoted from John, reminds me a hell of a lot like 'V'.

But still, I LOVED this episode. Galacticas back on track.

Put it in context.

This Cylon baby isn't a "real" baby, it's a science experiment. The characters see it that way, therefore there's no need to treat it with any sort of respect. Whether or not you see it that way is the beginnings of a whole religious and philosophical discussion that's too long and complicated to get into right now.


You can't open that can of worms, then slap the lid back on and say theres not enough time to discuss it.

The big question of this series is going to become, just how human are the 'human' model cylon. Will there really be any differance at all.

In Blade Runner, the 'replicants' were disscriminated against and given less that human status. When in fact, they WERE human. In fact they were superior to natural born humans in strength and intelligance. The difference....they were genetically designed. The defination of that....taking human genes and working out defects, improving other things, just as we do today, but on a grander scale. On the downside, they were 'born' full grown and had a 4 year life-span. But in the end, they were human.

The same is happening on this show. These cylons may be born full grown, but by every medical instrument to date (except for Baltars device) show them to be completely human. So why aren't they, because they weren't 'born'?

Saying that the 'human' cylons aren't human is like saying that people of a certain blood-type aren't 'human'.

She's not a Cylon. There was dialogue to the effect that the surrogate mom's natural baby died soon after being born. If the surrogate mom was a Cylon, how did she have a baby when it's already been established that this Boomer/Helo baby is the first one?


Galactica actually isn't so hot on continouity. If you go back throughout the series there are quite a few things that don't jive.

This mom, COULD be a cylon and her cylon/human baby died.
Or......
She could be human and her husband/mate might be the cylon.
Or......
The only way to verify that she is in fact human is to give her Baltar's blood test. But.....then.......Baltars falsified some of the results in the past.
Or......
She and her mate might be human, but they're part of the pasification movement, which, of course is headed up by a cylon.

The one thing that is for sure, is that when that kids get a hold of some chili and its spine startes glowing they're going to know somethings different about this child.

OK guys,

Download the podcast of this episode!

The baby being given away is like Moses being given away. There will be follow up stories about this child.

Caprica 6 and Boomber will be going to the fleet with Anders to attempt to find peace between the Cylons and humans. This will be the 2 part end of season story that will involve the nuke.

The Pegaus will stay around long into the 3rd season.

I'm surprised no one's brought this up: Caprica Six's Baltar act as her conscience. He's making her look beyond her programming. Simply put, Six's Baltar is her personification of things that make her "human": loving, empathy for others (especially strangers), explaining the difference between right and wrong.

That means that by contrast, Baltar's Six is his personification of what makes him a "monster": ambitious, cold-hearted, scheming, self-centered and remorseless.

Great stuff!

José

Yeah! I like her a lot better with her NZ accent! :thumbsup:
Accent? What accent? We don't have no accent here in NZ ;)

Accent? What accent? We don't have no accent here in NZ ;)

That's like saying you don't have sheep or aren't close to Australia... :drunk:

Gato, I love how they're playing the C6/Baltar game. When she first woke up and he was looking down at her in the tank, I just screamed WHAT?!? ... I can't wait to see where they're going with the mutual halucination thing...

heiki, a little warning before posting spoilers, please.

So did they explain how they faked the dead baby? I can only think of a few things:

1. fake baby.
2. sedated cylon baby.
3. Spare dead baby from morgue.
4. Aborted baby from previous episode.

I was unclear on that bit there. And it seems like a plan bound to screw up (obviously, but I just mean for it to be logical) so they give this wierd cylon baby to a grieving mother who REALLY wants a baby. What if it starts growing quickly, or starts acting weird? Do you take it away from her? Do you explain, well actually we gave you a crazy cylon baby. Sorry 'bout that!

I find the Baltar hallucination contrived. Matching pychoses! Wow, lucky that.

Anyone else think that Cylon society is incredibly boring? It's just pretty people walking around and drinking coffee. I'm assuming there is something more behind it, because even as they stress they are not like the borg, that's what they've presented us with....a collective society. Free thinkers to some degree, but monolithic and heteronormative (is that the word?). Will they reveal more about the development of the skinjobs from the bulletheads? Why do they all act like they're taking orders or are working for someone, but then seem to be a collective? Is there a brain trust or a higher echelon of shared-thought that can drive them and give them leadership and yet they still act like they work for different departments? It just seems so wobbly when they show the cylon perspective, as opposed to more interesting when they just show the fringe elements like Balter's Six or the Sharon cylons in the fleet.

Also, I've been listening to these podcasts for weeks now and Ron Moore is a doofus.

The mutual hallicinations may be either contrived or brilliant - it depends on what the writers doi with it. Even a bad idea can turn out to be well done. i hope ;)

"Skinjobs" - another homage, this time to Blade Runner.

The mutual hallicinations may be either contrived or brilliant - it depends on what the writers doi with it.Has anyone considered that these are not hallicinations but are in fact manifestations of another force manipulating both the Humans and the Cylons........The Lords Of Kobol.....Moore can use any element from the original series, this could be a setup for a "War of the Gods", i.e. the Lightship and Count Iblis!

"By your Command"......good words for girlfriends and wives to live by..:lol:

Anyone else think that Cylon society is incredibly boring? It's just pretty people walking around and drinking coffee.

I'm sorry......thats different from our society in........what way???????

Before you call someone a doofus, try looking deeper.


STARBUCKS FOREVER!
:tongue:








actually I hate coffee.

"Bulletheads" - another homage to John P. :)

Has anyone considered that these are not hallicinations but are in fact manifestations of another force manipulating both the Humans and the Cylons........The Lords Of Kobol.....Moore can use any element from the original series, this could be a setup for a "War of the Gods", i.e. the Lightship and Count Iblis!

Also don't forget the 'Imperious Leader'.
Would be interesting if he were their 'god'.

As for where the 'skinjobs' came from.....
Why only twelve models? Might they have come from 'human' patterns?
Ala 'Illia'. "They had a pattern to follow. Perhaps they followed it too closley".

So closely that they can develop feelings for the enemy and suffer some sort of post-traumatic stress syndrome.

José

Has anyone considered that these are not hallicinations but are in fact manifestations of another force manipulating both the Humans and the Cylons........The Lords Of Kobol.....Moore can use any element from the original series, this could be a setup for a "War of the Gods", i.e. the Lightship and Count Iblis!


I definately think they're more than mere hallucinations - but it's a good description for discussion purposes...they aren't exactly visions...hard to describe.

I think it answers the question whether 6 exists in Baltar's head or whether she's some type of "invisible Cylon agent" that only he can see. With C6 going through the same experience, I think it's safe to say that it's all in their heads.

Has anyone else used "By your command" since the pilot?? I've been sort of disappointed they haven't used it more often. I used to think it was a contrived saying until I realized that in Spanish, "Mande" was an appropriate response when someone tries to get your attention. Even though the English equivalent would be, "What's up" or "Yeah", it can be translated as, "By your command."

José

So did they explain how they faked the dead baby? I can only think of a few things:

4. Aborted baby from previous episode.

IMHO.


Will they reveal more about the development of the skinjobs from the bulletheads?

To take that a little further: will the bulletheads revolt against the skinheads? :freak:

I think it's been established that the Cylons are not biological. How many biologics can stick a computer connection in their arms and get rid of a computer virus?

Their mechanical systems may simulate and use some biological processes in creating and maintaining life. Whatever is involved at the microscopic or molecular level is apparently good enough to manage to merge with human life. In the end, however, they are programmed/self-programmable mechanisms.

It may be that our own biology has some programming in it. The mitochondria in our cells seem to be some sort of device. Who's to say that an alien race with physical structures based on a different method of maintaining life might not consider us "artificial." :confused:

Who's to say that an alien race with physical structures based on a different method of maintaining life might not consider us "artificial." :confused:

http://www.podster.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fotos/tv_nomad.jpg

:)

It may be that our own biology has some programming in it. The mitochondria in our cells seem to be some sort of device. Who's to say that an alien race with physical structures based on a different method of maintaining life might not consider us "artificial." :confused:

Mitochondria are actually very primitive cells with no nuclei that live in a symbiotic relationship with our complex cells. Mitochondrial DNA is passed down the maternal line, allowing people to be identified as relatives for many, many generations.

Mitochondria are actually very primitive cells with no nuclei that live in a symbiotic relationship with our complex cells. Mitochondrial DNA is passed down the maternal line, allowing people to be identified as relatives for many, many generations.

Well, that's sort of my point. It could be part of a "biological machine" if, for example, someone designed us using the structures we have.

Their symbiotic nature could mean they're a "starter" motor for our cells. The fact that they're separate from us to a large degree leaves a lot of questions to be answered eventually.

http://www.podster.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fotos/tv_nomad.jpg

:)

:lol:

I forgot about his comments on our carbon-based life forms.

heiki, a little warning before posting spoilers, please.....
Also, I've been listening to these podcasts for weeks now and Ron Moore is a doofus.

The information I posted is in the in PUBLIC DOMAIN. TV guide and some other sources like www.scifi.com (http://www.scifi.com) and the various BattleStar Galatica websites are full of this and other info.

The show broadcasted this last Friday and is available for download from iTunes Saturday.

Whatever I say about this episode is open for discussion. As for the other points about Pegaus, Ron Moore stated this several months ago. I will refrain from giving away spoilers as I think that would be the fair thing to do.:)

I am glad to see that you are listening to the podcasts and have a greater understanding of the show. Ron Moore does show more about himself than I think one should display or expose. In fact he demostrated a lack of tact towards the fans in the last 2 podcasts when he complained about the fans thoughts about his background sounds. I wonder how many fans may stop watching the show due to his behavior.

Podcast site is: http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/

That's like saying you don't have sheep or aren't close to Australia... :drunk:
Australia? Oh, you mean the West Island of New Zealand :D

In (http://www.In) fact he demostrated a lack of tact towards the fans in the last 2 podcasts when he complained about the fans thoughts about his background sounds. I wonder how many fans may stop watching the show due to his behavior.

Podcast site is: http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/

I think I have to side with Moore about the background sound thing and the fans complaining.

Too bad. Its a podcast get over it, and if you find it too distracting, don't listen.
He goes above and beyond by simply doing them each week.

I've never listened to the podcasts. What are the distracting sounds y'all are talking about?

Does he fart a lot?

Well, I know what they're complaining about, but the only thing I find objectionable is his constant smoking. I wouldn't even have a problem with that, except that I listen with earbuds and this guy is inside my head, smoking....it's a little skeevy. :)

I was turned off by his reaction to the complaining too. The guy complains about television conventions and production practices all the time and gets annoyed when someone mentions about his stuff. He was meaning to be funny, but he wasn't very good at it. In contrast, the Lost podcasts are actually very humorous even when they're complaining about what the fans are complaining about.

Heiki, I was just referring to the bit about Sharon, Six, and Anders returning to the fleet. I didn't really mind that much.

About the whole hallucination thing: I was surprised to hear Moore say that Six is simply a hullucination. I often forget things that have been established in the past, because I had been thinking it was still being played ambiguously. Can anyone who remembers better tell me if this has been consistent and logical? I thinking of episodes like the one where Six showed up and everyone could see her. So that was just a coincidence and there was no way for his invisible six to know about her?

I was thinking that the Cylons who are feeling more like humans are actually experiments by the Cylons themselves to either produce more realistic copies for deception purposes, or to understand more of the human psychological processes.

With both a 6 AND Baltar seeing their opposites in hallucinations, the first thing I thought of was that it was a plan of some sort by the Cylons. Why else would they both see their opposites? I suppose it could be something to do with the Lords of Kobol or those Lightship guys, but I don't really 'feel' like that stuff is going to be included in this new BSG series. I will watch the series until it either ends or gets boring. I have already been bored by some of the episodes.

With both a 6 AND Baltar seeing their opposites in hallucinations, the first thing I thought of was that it was a plan of some sort by the Cylons. Why else would they both see their opposites?

Exactly.

When it comes to mind-fracking, the Cylon "High Command" (or whatever) doesn't appear to discriminate between human and Cylon.

The Cylons clearly have an agenda; one which apparently involves playing their own agents as unwitting pawns in some sort of galactic con game (it'll be interesting to see if the pawns can turn the tables on their masters).

Speaking of con games, I love how Ron Moore thinks he can Jedi Mind Trick us into forgetting that, until quite recently, Caprica Six got her kicks by snapping the necks of human infants. The notion that she should now feel guilty for having conspired to destroy the human race seems a bit of a stretch.

It has been suggested by some people (all the way back into season 1) that C6's baby-killing might have been some sort of a twisted act of mercy...

Maybe she has truy come to see her actions as wrong over the past 10 months...

Maybe something got a bit hinky during her download...

Who knows? RDM probably does. We'll probably find out more over the next two weeks.

Maybe she has truy come to see her actions as wrong over the past 10 months...

Except for her it hasn't been 10 months. For her it was this morning. Does the downloaded Six no longer remember killing the baby? Perhaps not. My point is the Cylons are not to be trusted -- especially the cute, "guilt-ridden" ones.

Except for her it hasn't been 10 months. For her it was this morning.

Are you sure about that? The dialogue seemed to suggest that C6 had been revived a while back before the events in the episode.

I had also heard that the baby neck-snapping thing was an act of mercy.

José

Are you sure about that? The dialogue seemed to suggest that C6 had been revived a while back before the events in the episode.

I was referring to the time that elapsed between the baby's murder and Six's death/rebirth.

I had also heard that the baby neck-snapping thing was an act of mercy.

What's so merciful about snapping an infant's neck in front of its horrified mother? If the point was to spare the child from the anquish of being instantly vaporized in the pending nuclear blast I fail to see the logic.

I did say that if it was an act of mercy, it was twisted.

The episdode implied that a fair bit of time had passed between the resurrection of C6 at the start of the episode, and the resurrection of G-Boomer just afterward. Six's dialogue says that she went to the ruins of Baltar's house (possibly more than once) and kept some of his things for a while before burning them. I think she's been up and around for a few months, at least.

Six's dialogue says that she went to the ruins of Baltar's house (possibly more than once) and kept some of his things for a while before burning them.

How could Six visit the ruins of Baltar's house if she was "killed" in the blast which leveled it? In the scene with Boomer, Six was lying through her teeth (a fact Baltar points out, as I recall).

Time-frame issues aside (and getting back to my original point), Ron Moore and Co. have spent too much time establishing how duplicitous and mind-fracked C-6 and Boomer are for me to place much stock in their "emotions" one way or another. Ultimately, the question of whether those two are trying to help the Colonials or kill them depends upon which way the galactic wind happens to be blowing at any given moment. In Boomer's case it's hard not to pity her, but I sure as hell don't trust her.

Easy...she went after her resurrection. They are in Caprica City, after all...

What's so merciful about snapping an infant's neck in front of its horrified mother? If the point was to spare the child from the anquish of being instantly vaporized in the pending nuclear blast I fail to see the logic.

You're assuming that the baby would be killed in the nuclear blast. It's possible that the baby could've survived (assuming that she wasn't at the epicenter or near a blast site and instead was higher up in the mountains at the time of the attack). Assuming that the baby were to survive, it could have a slow painful death through radiation poisoning. Or what if the baby survived but not its parents. Again, it would have a slow, painful death this time through starvation. Or maybe the Cylons had a particularly nasty plan for babies that survived. Who knows? The fact is that we don't know where the baby would be at the time of the attack or what its fate would've been... and neither would Six. In her calculation a certain quick death was preferable than an unknown fate. Viewed in that context, I can see why she would want to do it.

Not that I agree with her.

How could Six visit the ruins of Baltar's house if she was "killed" in the blast which leveled it?

Her supposed lying about visiting notwithstanding, why couldn't Six visit the site after she was resurrected? The physical remains of buildings are still there. It's assumed that she could move at will. :confused:

Time-frame issues aside (and getting back to my original point), Ron Moore and Co. have spent too much time establishing how duplicitous and mind-fracked C-6 and Boomer are for me to place much stock in their "emotions" one way or another. Ultimately, the question of whether those two are trying to help the Colonials or kill them depends upon which way the galactic wind happens to be blowing at any given moment. In Boomer's case it's hard not to pity her, but I sure as hell don't trust her.

Point well taken. I'm not sure I would trust them either. Just to play devil's advocate: It is possible for a diehard to change opinions, though. If that happens to mere mortals like us, why couldn't it happen to almost-perfect replicas of us?

José