I guess it's about time I give an update regarding exactly when the new PROTOform 1/10th Charger body is shipped to the distributors & dealers. Well, guess what - we still don't know - as incredible as that sounds. I can tell you for sure that there's nobody more disappointed than me and the staff at PROTOform/Proline. With every passing year it seems more difficult to be able to legally bring a Dodge-likeness racebody to the marketplace in a timely fashion. We are now entering our 5th month in the approval process for the Charger HD body. The licensing firm that represents Dodge gave us a "verbal" assurance that a mid January release would be a strong possibility - so we sent some to sponsored racers and put images up on our web site. Since then it's been difficult to even get a phone call returned. The staff of this company are predominantly lawyers. Their actual task and responsibility is to get as much money as possible for their clients. (in this case Dodge) Somehow, they have completely lost sight of the goal - because as the months drag by - neither Dodge nor PROTOform is making a dime. However, they have already recieved a $izable check from PROTOform to procure the name "Charger". Nice
I assure you there's nothing wrong with the body itself, or with Dodge (the company) or with PROTOform's business practices. It's just unfortunate that the Dodge division of DaimerBenz turned over the licensing of all "Dodge likeness" products to a new licensing agency approx. 2-3 years ago. This new agency doesn't understand the R/C industry at all - nor do they even want to. This particular licensing firm, that we're forced to deal with, represents not only Dodge but a long list of Fortune 500 companies as well as.... get this - Britney Spears.
Need I say more.
For those out there who are new to the sport I'll breifly explain. Proline/PROTOform is a company that tries its best to operate within the boundaries of the law. We adopt this policy primarily because it's simply the RIGHT thing to do. However this policy also helps to ensure our survival as a company - and it makes for less sleepless nights as well. It's quite simply illegal to sell a product that uses a name, (like Ford, Chevy or Toyota etc), or uses a "symbol" (Blue Oval, Bowtie etc) or has a visual shape or likeness to a "real" car. If you try to sell them you will eventually be served with legal documents and threatened with ridiculously costly law suits. That's unfortunately the business world that we currently live in. Much "credit" for this situaltion is due to NASCAR and companies like Action Performance and other die cast & model car companies. United States seems to have a definite surplus of lawyers in need of work and they've definitely found some "easy pickins" in the world of miniature cars. I know that I risk being labelled a "whiner" but I'll say it anyway: "This is getting to be a tougher deal every month for the R/C body manufacturer". Just last week the company that handles the licensing for General Motors doubled the royalty rate ($) that Proline & PROTOform must pay them on every body.

The good news is that this problem can and will be solved eventually. We are being gradually forced into looking at creative solutions. Hopefully ROAR and ARCOR will "lend an ear" and work with us.

Sincerely - Dale - PROTOform ;)

Dale,
Dont worry about it, they look sweet and when we are able to buy them, i know that they will take off. Just dont give up hope and THANKS for makeing a great body for us all to run !!!


Dan Hood

Guess I'm confused, I just got 2 bodies from tower this week. Model 1225-51 it says on the label and has dimples in the rear window for darkside mounts and the cut off brace in the rear.

Looks like to me they been shipped.

Dale - Sorry to hear about the difficulty your having with licensing. I know many of us will be patiently waiting for the release. I saw the body at the Birds it looks great, can't wait to try one.


Doug P

Scale looks are cool, but if its that big of a headache......Maybe it's time for "Oval Pleazer" or "Short Track Nemesis" bodies...........

For those out there who are new to the sport I'll breifly explain. Proline/PROTOform is a company that tries its best to operate within the boundaries of the law. We adopt this policy primarily because it's simply the RIGHT thing to do. However this policy also helps to ensure our survival as a company - and it makes for less sleepless nights as well. It's quite simply illegal to sell a product that uses a name, (like Ford, Chevy or Toyota etc), or uses a "symbol" (Blue Oval, Bowtie etc) or has a visual shape or likeness to a "real" car. If you try to sell them you will eventually be served with legal documents and threatened with ridiculously costly law suits. That's unfortunately the business world that we currently live in. Much "credit" for this situaltion is due to NASCAR and companies like Action Performance and other die cast & model car companies. United States seems to have a definite surplus of lawyers in need of work and they've definitely found some "easy pickins" in the world of miniature cars. I know that I risk being labelled a "whiner" but I'll say it anyway: "This is getting to be a tougher deal every month for the R/C body manufacturer". Just last week the company that handles the licensing for General Motors doubled the royalty rate ($) that Proline & PROTOform must pay them on every body.
Sincerely - Dale - PROTOform ;)

Hmm, now why would racers on the original 2006 PROTOform Dodge Charger #1225-21 thread be posting that they have received and they will or have raced these bodies if they have not yet been released?...Like post #68 & #70 that shows a pic and a racer telling he will be racing it at the Birds?? Look here..http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=134405&page=5&pp=15 Kinda hard to stay in the boundaries of the law when the evidence is posted for the public to veiw.

You might check out that DAM-U certificate you tried to give me:devil:

The licensing firm that represents Dodge gave us a "verbal" assurance that a mid January release would be a strong possibility - so we sent some to sponsored racers and put images up on our web site.

Maybe you should re-read Dales post.

Hmm, now why would racers on the original 2006 PROTOform Dodge Charger #1225-21 thread be posting that they have received and they will or have raced these bodies if they have not yet been released?...Like post #68 & #70 that shows a pic and a racer telling he will be racing it at the Birds?? Look here..http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=134405&page=5&pp=15 Kinda hard to stay in the boundaries of the law when the evidence is posted for the public to veiw.

You might check out that DAM-U certificate you tried to give me:devil:

I would say that Dale covered it in his post....Eric Salvas is a SPONSORED DRIVER for Proto-form. So why would you come on here and try to start something? Open mouth insert foot!!

EA

Yup, as EA said, the Salvas', Marabella, the Ulbrick's and others had them (without decals), others of us tried to get them but quickly found out about the issue and went about our business. I'm sure it's a great unit but I also think that there were no mains won or lost due to having or not having the body.

I do not know where the sour grapes come from but providing prototypes for free and without decals certainly falls within the law.

Have a Happy Day!

Peter Coll

NitroWolf;
No law against giving things away.
Were you referring to the "School of Hard Knocks" diploma?

Dale

NitroWolf;
No law against giving things away.
Were you referring to the "School of Hard Knocks" diploma?

Dale

Yep, that one.:rolleyes:

i don't care who you are that "school of hard knocks diploma" thing was awesome. I LMAO for like ten minutes on that post. good one Dale.

Yep, good one.

I would say that Dale covered it in his post....Eric Salvas is a SPONSORED DRIVER for Proto-form. So why would you come on here and try to start something? Open mouth insert foot!!

EA

No need to insert your foot in your mouth on my behalf. You have a right to comment.

I actually was taking a poke at Dale about his poke at me. No harm having a liitle fun. I thought he might enjoy the return. I'm glad to see you guys come to his rescue. It's nice to see some support out there. Hey, we all know that there are trademark/copy rights on these products...free or not.

The way those laws work you can copy stuff and GIVE it away all day long.. Its once you start SELLING stuff with their name on it that it becomes a problem.. Hence why TEAM drivers have them..

Sorry to hear about the BS...hopefully thats over in the next year or so when the nascar body becomes standard and brandless..

No need to insert your foot in your mouth on my behalf. You have a right to comment.

I actually was taking a poke at Dale about his poke at me. No harm having a liitle fun. I thought he might enjoy the return. I'm glad to see you guys come to his rescue. It's nice to see some support out there. Hey, we all know that there are trademark/copy rights on these products...free or not.

No foot in my mouth......From your post you must love toes!! I was just stating something you didnt seem to understand or couldnt read in black and white.

EA

No foot in my mouth......From your post you must love toes!! I was just stating something you didnt seem to understand or couldnt read in black and white.

EA

Okay, son.

Hey Dale you will find out real quick some of the guys on here will pick a fight any time they can!!!!!! This is a great body and will be out as soon as you guys can turn it out so just keep doing what you do cause it is the best!!!!!!!!!Hacksaw

By jove I think I have it. No need to sell anything Dodge or Charger related period. Sell us the packaging at a reasonable cost and just for free include the complimentary body shell and decals. No laws broken there. You just have to think like a lawyer to beat one.

My dad once sold a million dollar piece of property to a friend for $1 to keep it out of a legal mess he had gotten into. We enjoyed that beach house for years afterwards. It couldnt be taken away from him since it was legally sold to another owner then rented back to him. Most lawyers are not bad people, Just oppurtunists,:tongue:

OR YOU COULD JUST TAKE THE DODGE CHARGER OFF OF IT AND CALL IT THE "PROMASTER" LOL ... AND DONT PLACE ANY DECAL SHEETS IN IT, THEY WANNA HURT YOU, BY NOT LETTING YOU SELL THEM, SO HURT THEM BY NOT SELLING IT, SELL YOUR OWN CAR BODY, THE"PROMASTER". LOL


Dan Hood

Wow, my post was originally directed to Dale, noone else. All of the other crap was unnecessary. I don't think Dale needs anyone to speak for him. He replied for himself. It's apparent that my post was not out of line according to HobbyTalk TOS. I did not receive a PM from Hank telling me that I did something wrong.

So, why all the fuss? Why reply to a post that is not directed to you? I'll tell you why....its because you guys try to make a big deal over nothing. EA is nothing more than a hypocrite. On another thread he spoke of others racers with bad attitudes that he would not sponsor if he was paid $500 each. Then he jumps over on this thread and puts in his 2 cents on a post that has nothing to do with him. Now who has the bad attitude, Eric? Open mouth insert foot!!


It was a fun poke from me to Dale in return for one he gave to me. I never knocked his new body & I never knocked Protoform. I ask the question "how the bodies were out without being released"....Dale replied to me.

So, let it go & get over it!

Wow, my post was originally directed to Dale, noone else. All of the other crap was unnecessary. I don't think Dale needs anyone to speak for him. He replied for himself. It's apparent that my post was not out of line according to HobbyTalk TOS. I did not receive a PM from Hank telling me that I did something wrong.

So, why all the fuss? Why reply to a post that is not directed to you? I'll tell you why....its because you guys try to make a big deal over nothing. EA is nothing more than a hypocrite. On another thread he spoke of others racers with bad attitudes that he would not sponsor if he was paid $500 each. Then he jumps over on this thread and puts in his 2 cents on a post that has nothing to do with him. Now who has the bad attitude, Eric? Open mouth insert foot!!


It was a fun poke from me to Dale in return for one he gave to me. I never knocked his new body & I never knocked Protoform. I ask the question "how the bodies were out without being released"....Dale replied to me.

So, let it go & get over it!

What I posted has nothing to do with "a bad attitude" I simply posted the answer to what you were questioning. If you dont want an answer then dont ask....Simple as that. If I see someone posting something negative or not about a company that I am sponsored by If I have 2 cents I WILL put it in...My given right by this country we live in!!

You can TRY to twist it anyway you can....but the simple fact is I answered a question that you asked....You were trying to be a smart ass so I was one back.
EA

yes some of us were lucky enough to test these bodys, but they will be released as soon as possible. you have to look a this from a business standpoint.their is alot of legal stuff behind the scenes just to make customers happy.so just give it just a bit and yall will have your chance to run this awesome body as well.dale and protoform keep the great products coming. i have ran your products since they were first produced. way back when and protoform is all that i will run from now on so don't let all the drama get you down.

As a matter of fact I have run protoform bodies since way before the Pro-line affiliation so I have to ask. Are there any plans to do any other body's such as dirt oval in the future? I still have a mounted Vortex wedge body from back in the day so maybe a TC sized latemodel body would sell well these days. Whadayasay Dale?

Yeah Dale like we discussed on the phone the other day.. those guys just don't get it.....


Good luck with them....

Billy

Dale, could you elaborate a little more on the Aero package of the charger Vs. the HD Monte. How and where is the downforce different. My gut feeling on the monte was that it had massive front downforce in relation to the rear a little too much for my liking at the tracks I race at, almost too aggressive if thats possible. lately all the tracks I have been running at, I am fighting for less bite in the front and more rear. Do you think the charger would be an improvement over the Monte for me? Thanks in advance. HB

then the charger would help you... The charger seems to be less aggressive up front.. and slightly less out back to me... if I had to pin it down Id say 30% less up front 5% less out back.. cart felt more stable in the straightaways..

Kenwood

you have pm

By jove I think I have it. No need to sell anything Dodge or Charger related period. Sell us the packaging at a reasonable cost and just for free include the complimentary body shell and decals. No laws broken there. You just have to think like a lawyer to beat one.
:tongue: Kinda like scalping tickets to a game or concert! Sell a lighter for whatever the ticket sells for & get a free ticket! Yes,it works!

Dale- I know what you're going through as far as the licensing deal. The tenants upstairs from us (at work) are the official licensee for any wearable merchandise (t-shirts,etc) dealing with likenesses of certain deceased music stars-namely people with last names such as Hendrix,Marley,Joplin,Gaye,Cash,etc. So to see the process in action every day compared to what you & P-Form are going through w/Dodge's licensing reps is pretty much par for the course. Hang in there!
-George

GREAT WORK Dale!! the body is awesome, hope the issue can be resolved soon, this is going to be an extemely popular body.

Hey Dale you will find out real quick some of the guys on here will pick a fight any time they can!!!!!! This is a great body and will be out as soon as you guys can turn it out so just keep doing what you do cause it is the best!!!!!!!!!Hacksaw

Hey Hacksaw...... why you gotta bring me into to this? :cool:

Keep up the great work Dale.......

Kenny@RAPTOR

Dale any news on the Toyota Camry body for 07? And if it does happen, will it be an HD, or MD.
Rick<><

Dale any news on the Toyota Camry body for 07? And if it does happen, will it be an HD, or MD.
Rick<><

Better yet, is it going to be along the lines of the current cars or based off the car of tomorrow?

Rickster58 & Xpressman;

Sorry to say guys but I will never do a body thats called a Toyota Camry NEXTEL CUP body. And for that matter there will never be a 2006 NC Monte Carlo or NC Ford Fusion body coming from my shop either.
However, by mid summer there will be at a few new PROTOform oval "concept" bodies. Probably a MD-TConcept, HD-MConcept and an MDF Concept (that means I'm using medium density fiberboard for building the pattern lol!) :cool: I'm still not quite sure of the order in which they'll be released.

There will be nothing in the works that even vaguely looks like the proposed "COT" until they become a little bit more pleasing to the eye. Right now looking at them gives me a rash.

Pf-D

Dale how about an HS body???? LOL

Brian Huffer

Dale - Looking forward to the new bodies.

Doug P

Dale,I'm glad you woke up,"concept" is the word,Mold them & we will race them,Sorry could not see you at snowbirds had a medical problem,1'st one i missed since it started,The least you have to do with atty's better off you are,we talked about this about 30 posts ago, "concept" is the word.

Just thought I would throw you in the middle!!!!!!LOL Hacksaw

Huffrcman:

PM sent.

Dale

Rickster58 & Xpressman;

Sorry to say guys but I will never do a body thats called a Toyota Camry NEXTEL CUP body. And for that matter there will never be a 2006 NC Monte Carlo or NC Ford Fusion body coming from my shop either.
However, by mid summer there will be at a few new PROTOform oval "concept" bodies. Probably a MD-TConcept, HD-MConcept and an MDF Concept (that means I'm using medium density fiberboard for building the pattern lol!) :cool: I'm still not quite sure of the order in which they'll be released.

There will be nothing in the works that even vaguely looks like the proposed "COT" until they become a little bit more pleasing to the eye. Right now looking at them gives me a rash.

Pf-D

Dale,
All I have to say is THANK YOU!!!!!!

Rickster58 & Xpressman;

Sorry to say guys but I will never do a body thats called a Toyota Camry NEXTEL CUP body. And for that matter there will never be a 2006 NC Monte Carlo or NC Ford Fusion body coming from my shop either.
However, by mid summer there will be at a few new PROTOform oval "concept" bodies. Probably a MD-TConcept, HD-MConcept and an MDF Concept (that means I'm using medium density fiberboard for building the pattern lol!) :cool: I'm still not quite sure of the order in which they'll be released.

There will be nothing in the works that even vaguely looks like the proposed "COT" until they become a little bit more pleasing to the eye. Right now looking at them gives me a rash.

Pf-D
I don't folow you on that... What are you saying exactly. That you don't think you can obtain the licensing? Am I missing something here?
Rick<><

rickster58: you have a pm

Dale

I have seen this body-a sponsored driver was racing it and that body looks awesome and seemed to drive very well on the track. I have had my chance to buy the MC charger and bandit charger-although they look great, I would prefer to try the proto first because I have had better results with the proto bodies than others, I will stick with my intrepid until they are realeased or send me one I will pay the 20 something for the packaging and label. Ken

Dale you have a pm
Nick

any word when available and who has them?

There will be nothing in the works that even vaguely looks like the proposed "COT" until they become a little bit more pleasing to the eye. Right now looking at them gives me a rash.

Pf-D

Dale , Your My Hero!!

will the bodies be less money since the they wont have a license?

I will pay a good price for any driver that might have picked one up at the snowbirds and is willing to part with it.

bmcallister01@aol.com

Not quite sure why Protoform (Dale) is worried about producing a RC
car body that resembles the full size cars does it really matter? Just
make a body with the help of your Factory drivers that fit in stock
19t and mod and produce it. I know for a fact if you make it you will
have a winner and people will buy it.

Eric Knapp

Dale , Your My Hero!!

He was my hero before, but an even bigger one now since that Car Of Tommorrow comment! I stop watching Nextel Cup when that design hits the race track!

Dale, I also agree with making a HS (High Speed) body. We have a little track here in Indianapolis called the Velodrome that it would work nicely on. ;)

chad :cool: