I've been watching and enjoying SURFACE, but last night I believe they said that the next two episodes will be the last, and "all questions will be answered". If so, that's disappointing - it has decent production value and effects, and is a fun homage to classic monster and sci-fi films.
I also like the fact that you can "recap"the previous week's episode on Sci-Fi.

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/cgi/newswire.cgi?id=7066
Despite fears that "Surface's" February 6 installment is being billed as the "finale," the show remains under consideration for the 2006-07 season. That being said, the season finale "will provide a sort of semi-closure.
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds28363.html
I think it's creative ... It's got a very loyal audience. We'll reassess in May, and we'll look at the rest of the product, but no decision [on its future] is made right now one way or the other.

We like Surface too. It's a fun show, not overly serious. Last night, that ape-creature thing that spoke like a little girl made my skin crawl!!!! Underworld-evolution never did that.....

Some things were meant to end after one season not becuase they're bad but because it makes for well-invested viewing. "Surface" is one of those shows. I have really enjoyed the ride but I'd like some closure. And just how long can we spin the two storylines out anyway?

Think of it a season-long miniseries. Frankly, it's a concept whose time has come and it works for "24". How long will audiences stay with "Lost" before they demand answers? How long can the writers of "Lost" go before they dig themselves a hole (with a hatch, of course) that they can't get out of without resorting to a dream sequence explanation.

There's nothing wrong with writing and presenting a show that's only supposed to last one season.

Jim

Thanks for the posts - I guess limbo is better than no-go...

How long can the writers of "Lost" go before they dig themselves a hole (with a hatch, of course) that they can't get out of without resorting to a dream sequence explanation. I do see people complaining that questions aren't being answered on Lost -- but as Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindeloff mention in the show's newest official podcast, answering all the questions would leave the show with "no core." They have revealed numerous things, and there's more to come before the end of the season (we will know what happened to Walt before the year ends, among other things), but they have to have new questions arise at the same time. Without that mystery, the show becomes as conventional as any other, regardless of how inventive the answers to the mysteries might be. We see the same thing in BSG -- it's straight drama, in many ways, but there's always the mysteries surrounding the nature of the "plan" the cylons have up their sleeves. In many ways, the show is about the mysteries of the island. If it is (as seems to be the case) a show expected to run six or seven years, we're still in the opening phase and don't even know what all the mysteries and questions are as yet. Some of the complaints, to me, come across as "Wow! What a fascinating show! I wish it would show all its cards and end already! It drew me in with all these mysteries and is so great -- different than anything I've ever seen! Now it needs to change all that and become what I think it should be."

This is what could have happened, in a smaller way, to Alias had it ever been a huge hit. I'm kind of glad now, in a way, that it wasn't. I sometimes wonder how many people read a mystery and then, halfway through, turn to the last page in impatience, saying "enough with all the unanswered questions." If you didn't want a mystery, why'd you pick up a mystery novel?

Feeling a touch grumpy today ...

Qapla'

SSB

I'm with you, sbaxter. One thing that really irritates me is when people treat movies or tv shows as sources of data. We don't watch drama for information, or for plot (and if you think you do, it just shows a lack of self-awareness). The purpose of drama is to provide an emotional experience. Which means the way the story is presented is at least or even more important than the story itself.

[QUOTE=BEBrunsWe don't watch drama for information, or for plot (and if you think you do, it just shows a lack of self-awareness). The purpose of drama is to provide an emotional experience.[/QUOTE]

Hey, don't be so quick to dismiss plot! More often than not it's the means by which the aforementioned "emotional experience" is delivered (there's a common misunderstanding regarding the difference between plot and character. For the record, they're one in the same).

By the way, you're absolutely right with regard to your comment about watching drama for information. We don't.

Exactly. Plot is there to provide structure. But if all we were interested in plot, why even bother watching a movie/tv show. Just read a synopsis.

Chris - I look forward to watching Surface every Monday night and I would be really disappointed if the show ended. I've grown "fond" of Nim as a character; I have a soft spot for feisty little critters I guess and I would miss the little guy.

Perhaps Surface "season 2" could fcontinue the same basic premise but with a different focus through a group of new characters as the world starts to become aware of and react to the appearance of these creatures.

And Rich - yeah, that ape-thing with the little girl's voice totally freaked me out! Haven't been that spooked since I was a little kid staying up past my bedtime to watch scary movies!!

Huzz

Some things were meant to end after one season not becuase they're bad but because it makes for well-invested viewing. "Surface" is one of those shows.
Although the creator(s) say they mapped out a 22 episode arc to facilitate selling the show, they were/are prepared to continue
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art37582.asp
And good news for fans—the Pates are completely prepared for a whole 100 episodes of the show. Just in case.

Huzz, Is there anything that I like that you don't? We must have been seperated at birth!

I really have to agree with sbaxter about Lost, to me the people who complain about Lost not giving up everything is annoying. I, personally don't want the answers, a bit here and there is fine. I enjoy the ride, I am not looking for the end or all the answers, I want to be entertained. I get that in spades from Lost, plus I have to rewatch the VHS tape to see what little things they slipped in the show for us to find.

I have to rewatch the VHS tape to see what little things they slipped in the show for us to find.Have you checked out the official podcast? They (usually Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindeloff) frequently give a hint or two about what or where a viewer might find these Easter Eggs in the next episode. And while they won't answer the Major Questions, naturally, they do sometimes confirm or deny smaller things. For example, thanks to their podcasts, I know that Ana Lucia is not a lesbian (denying rumors strongly swirling around early in the season) and that we'll find out what's been happening to Walt since Mr. Friendly (their nickname for the man Sawyer dubs "Zeke") snatched him from the raft in last season's finale.

One other thing about some fans' consternation is, I think, they forget that when we catch up with the survivors once a week, a week hasn't actually passed on the island. It's been, what, going on three months since Shannon "died" out here for us? That was day 48 in the show's continuity, and last week's episode was day 50.

Qapla'

SSB

No I haven't caught any podcasts. I used to hit the main website that the shows people use, but due to so many posts so fast I could never keep up with anything.
The writers did post a bit and give out clues here and there. The guy that plays Hurley and Locke did post quite a bit to answer folks. They seem a good bunch.

I really have to agree with sbaxter about Lost, to me the people who complain about Lost not giving up everything is annoying. I, personally don't want the answers, a bit here and there is fine. I enjoy the ride, I am not looking for the end or all the answers, I want to be entertained. I get that in spades from Lost, plus I have to rewatch the VHS tape to see what little things they slipped in the show for us to find.

I agree.
Even though I was one of the ones complaining about the pace of the show early this season. I didn't want all the answers, but between the tail end of last season, and the very begining of this season things really bogged down.
They were bringing up tons more questions, with no answers coming.
That, and the character develpment seemed to have hit a wall also.
Thankfully, I stuck with it, and things have been roling pretty good lately.

They do have to walk a thin line though.
They have to give enough answers to keep the viewers from getting too frustrated and still interested in the show. But they can't give away too much and take away the mystery of the island.

A big part of that is how they fill the eps with flashbacks.
Even though I am still enjoying the show, I am about fed up with Jack and Kate flashbacks. I find them all boring and anticlimactic. I just can't really care about either of these charcters much anymore.

The strength of the show and why it may have better staying power than similar "mystery" shows is/are the the flashbacks. I love how the characters are fleshed out each week. I really enjoyed the flashback to Jacks' failed operation, if only because of the mega-hot Italian woman. For Jack to turn her down, that was just unbelieveable!!!

Spooky - I like mega-hot Italian women too! ;)

Huzz

One of the problems LOST has it that there are so many characters and storylines going in umpteen directions, plus flashbacks, that items of interest are brought up, only to be discarded or ignored because of other pressing story lines. Perfect example is the "monster". We heard it and saw its influence early in the first season, and then the episodes carried on as if it had never made its presence known. We finally see "the monster"(or one version of it) this season, and probably won't see or hear of it again until the end of the season, if then.

I still enjoy the show, and listen to the podcasts, but avoid spoilers when I can - I don't want to know beforehand...

One of the problems LOST has it that there are so many characters and storylines going in umpteen directions, plus flashbacks, that items of interest are brought up, only to be discarded or ignored because of other pressing story lines.So far, I have been content to believe things aren't really discarded as such, just placed on the back burner. The Mon-stah (my own term, best read in a "Bobby Pickett/'Monster Mash' voice ;) ) is a good example. Early on, it seemed that the audience was fascinated with the question of what it was, almost to the exclusion of all else. They fixed The Mon-stah deeply into the show's mythos, getting across the idea that it is important, then they let it go for a while. To me, this allowed the audience to focus on other things. But as you mentioned, it certainly hasn't been forgotten. If you avoid promos for the next new episode (some people consider those to be spoilers, sometimes with good reason), then you might actually have been surprised when it returned recently -- you probably wouldn't have been expecting to see it, at least.

Doing this also reminds me of Odo in Deep Space Nine, in that we eventually went long stretches of episodes where we didn't see Odo demonstrate his shapeshifting ability. The character (and the show itself, with all the other characters it offered) was strong enough that it didn't need the obligatory two shape-shifting effects scenes per episode. Similarly, Lost is a strong-enough show that we don't need to see The Mon-stah every week, or every third week -- we can wait until it has a purpose to have it return.
I still enjoy the show, and listen to the podcasts, but avoid spoilers when I can - I don't want to know beforehand...Me too -- but I have discovered that most of the "spoilers" really don't spoil things they way the term is usually used. They are usually more like hints, or maybe things that might say something like "before this season ends, we'll see what's been happening with Walt" or "We're going to see Desmond return before the season ends" or "relatively soon, the identity of the person with whom Jack's wife was having an affair will be revealed." In most other cases where I've seen that term applied, it would be considered more of a spoiler if we were told the actual answers themselves beforehand, as opposed to being forewarned that the show will reveal those things.

By the way, only the first of those three examples is, to my knowledge, genuine. I repeated the one about Walt because I had already mentioned it, but I concocted the other two myself. I usually avoid stuff marked as "spoilers" -- and always avoid those marked "MAJOR spoilers."

One other thing: I do see people who are disappointed when an episode is heavy on backstory at the perceived expense of the island mysteries. I believe we will find that all of these things -- backstory and island mysteries -- are inextricably linked. But that's just an educated guess. :thumbsup:

Before this, I cannot ever remember a TV series in my life that has been so fascinating. Every week, I am totally engrossed. Twin Peaks probably came closest, but I think it lacked one thing that Lost does have -- an overall plan. Perhaps it was the very example of Twin Peaks that drove the creators of Lost to do things differently. Time will tell, I suppose.

Qapla'

SSB

When Walt does return, I wonder if they'll explain why he's aged two years in two months. Maybe the backward talking is a clue to this. Are they in some sort of time warp?

And what about Locke's comment that he liked silent movies? When one of the other characters remarked that he wasn't that old, he just sort of laughed. I know the producers have said that they are keeping the time frame of the flashbacks vague. Another clue?

Am I overthinking this?

And what happened to the LOST thread? This is supposed to be about SURFACE.

And what happened to the LOST thread? This is supposed to be about SURFACE.

Well, I started this thread, and I officially declare that we can talk about LOST as well! :D

SSB - you're right, I shouldn't have said discarded. But the characters often do things as if earlier events don't impact their reasoning. In spite of threats from others, the "monster", death, etc., characters will wander the island with impunity. At least last week "Zeke" addressed the issue of their activities on the island.
But why in the world didn't they ask him some fundamental questions?
I'll throw up one other question on this hijacked thread - When Saywer fired at "Zeke" did someone return fire, or was that a ricochete? and if so, what did the bullet ricochete off of?

I'll throw up one other question on this hijacked thread - When Saywer fired at "Zeke" did someone return fire, or was that a ricochete? and if so, what did the bullet ricochete off of?

I thought it was a richocete off a force field till everybody else revealed themselves, then I wasn't so sure....

Ooh Ooh. I got it! They're all robots!

The big experiment on the island was to create an artificial intelligence. They created a number of androids indistinguishable from humans. The bunker had a fail safe device that would send out a electromagnetic pulse and deactivate them all if things got out of hand. Things did get out of hand. The androids demanded more autonomy. Those in control of the project activated the "doomsday device." The robots overran the bunker before it went off. They couldn't figure out how to shut it down, but they discovered a way to delay it indefinitely.

As time went by, some of the androids decided that they would not be able to truly advance as long as they knew they were artificial. They came up with the plan to implant false memories in everyone and stage a plane crash to give themselves a fresh start. A splinter group, led by "Zeke" objected to this. This group was eventually driven off deeper into the island. When the main group went through with their plan, the "others" were especially offended by the artificial children they had created, and began kidnapping them.

Yeah, I know there's a lot of problems with this, but give me time. This was just off the top of my head.

I thought it was a richocete off a force field till everybody else revealed themselves, then I wasn't so sure....That was my reaction as well. Most people simply think that Sawyer fired and missed and was grazed by a sniper. That idea is supported, I think, by Jack telling Zeke/Mr. Friendly that he thought there was one other person hidden who had a gun. Seems likely he wouldn't have presumed that other person had a gun unless said person had fired at them -- although there was earlier comment about having heard seven shots but only finding three shell casings. I think things like this are often left deliberately vague.

Unless Jack, Sawyer and Locke are in the same boat as us (or as most other viewers), you'd think they'd have shown a little more surprise had Sawyer's shot bounced off a force field. Possibly it did, and they just didn't realize it either.
When Walt does return, I wonder if they'll explain why he's aged two years in two months. Maybe the backward talking is a clue to this. Are they in some sort of time warp?Actually, in island-time it has been only four to six days since Walt was taken from the raft! No idea if they'll acknowledge it. I'm not sure how different he'll look anyway; I didn't notice anything particularly different about him in Shannon and Sayid's visions of him earlier this season, but then he was dripping wet, talking backward and not interacting with other characters up close. They might simply ignore it. On the other hand, maybe they'll write it in as something the other survivors notice but cannot explain, which could suggest a tie-in to some of the Dharma Initiative experiments.

Did you notice the quote Zeke/Mr. Friendly delivered? He was quoting Alvar Hanso. ;)
And what about Locke's comment that he liked silent movies? When one of the other characters remarked that he wasn't that old, he just sort of laughed. I know the producers have said that they are keeping the time frame of the flashbacks vague. Another clue?They have, in fact, been very careful to suggest a time for when Oceanic 815 actually left Australia, suggesting they aren't ruling out the idea that more time passed than was apparent between takeoff and the moment when Jack awakens in the jungle.

Many fans have speculated about possible time travel being involved -- but also the semi-related possibility that a considerable amount of time passed between the moment the jet started to break up and the first scene on the beach. Of course, the producers have phrased their remarks in such a way that if that isn't the case, they've said nothing that wasn't true.
Am I overthinking this?Maybe yes and no. I don't think that every possible thing that might be significant really is significant. Watching the show begins to teach the viewer to specualte that things are not as they seem. A significant portion of that speculation will turn out to be wrong (because if something weird always happens, eventually it isn't weird anymore), I think -- but any of it might be right as well. Locke's remark about being "old enough" may indicate something tied to the island's weirdness, or he might simply be a fan of old movies. I usually figure that what seems most likely probably is correct, but I try not to dismiss other, stranger possibilities out of hand; I try to keep them in my head as alternatives. For example, when Shannon is shot, it appeared that Ana-Lucia was the shooter -- but because we weren't shown that definitively the first week it happened (remember that it is also the climax of the following episode, where we see it from Ana-Lucia's POV), I considered the possibility that it was some unseen other person. In the end, it seems that it was Ana-Lucia after all ... but hey, with snipers on the island ...

I'm telling you guys -- go to The Fuselage (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/index.php) to read theories out the wazoo, if you're really interested. Some of the theories and speculation are incredibly stupid, but some others are very complicated and yet well-crafted.

Qapla'

SSB

One other thing: I do see people who are disappointed when an episode is heavy on backstory at the perceived expense of the island mysteries. I believe we will find that all of these things -- backstory and island mysteries -- are inextricably linked. But that's just an educated guess. :thumbsup:



Most flashbacks, I like.
I like the insight into the character, and can usually understand how it will impact events on the island.

But some of them just bore me.
I could care less about Kate offing her mom's abusive boyfriend.

Kates' backstories are always good, because Kate is in them, a lot.

Re: Last night's episode("Fire and Water") ... some things about this one really made an impact -- bothered me to the point I stayed awake awhile, turning it over in my head. I knew Charlie was about to take a beat-down from Locke as soon as Aaron was safe ... but the sheer fury of it still shocked me. :eek:

One observation and one theory from last night:

Observation: It's awfully interesting that Claire is quick to completely brush aside Charlie's dreams, given her earlier nightmares about herself and her baby being in danger and how outraged she was that no one believed her. A possible "out" for her, though, is that I believe those happened before she was snatched away by Ethan, so it is quite possible she doesn't even remember any of that.

Theory: Locke has not seemed like exactly the same man most of this season as we saw last season. Some of that is, I still suspect, a bit of an affectation -- Locke realizes that some people were becoming frightened of him, so he's keeping his mouth shut in regard to some of his more philosophical thoughts. However, I hatched another theory that may be more relevant -- Locke has distanced himself from some of his de facto "followers" because he did not do that with Boone -- in fact, he played a very active role with Boone -- and Boone woke up dead. Despite what he has said, Locke blames himself for Boone's death, so he's backed off on deeper relationships (such as with Charlie) for the most part. I think that, on the other hand, he may be gravitating toward Claire because he knows she isn't likely to follow him into battle, literally or figuratively, and maybe also for the same reason Charlie did -- he wants to atone for Boone by helping Claire and Aaron. Additionally, there's the stuff about Claire's baby being so important -- Locke may have learned something that has caused him to believe Aaron is vitally important as well.

All that said ... Charlie's in a very dark place. And his relationship with Claire and Locke seems ... severely damaged at best. Broken completely? I doubt it, but stranger things have happened.

Qapla'

SSB

It seemed like, with that great 360 degree shot of Locke when he overheard about about the baptism, that he knew something about it. And the previews to next weeks seem to indicate Locke may have been busy with some agendas of his own.

I think Season 2 of Lost has been far superior to Season 1. I'm still not sure that something not unlike the plot of the book Millenium is going on, where the plot was people from the future would snatch in midair people from the present who were about to die from impending plane crashes for their DNA. And BTW, though it's been decades since I read it, iirc it was a decent read, and light years better than the Cheryl Ladd/Kris Kristopherson movie version that's one of the worst sci-fi movies ever made.

I think Season 2 of Lost has been far superior to Season 1.I'm not sure -- all I know is it has been intensely fascinating from the get-go for me.

Speaking of books ... After reading numerous messages citing it, last weekend I read Michael Crichton's novel Prey. I'd say it does appear that at the very least, the novel may have provided significant inspiration for The Mon-stah -- or at least the one or component thereof we saw in the face-off with Eko. Based partly on my reading of the novel and despite what sounded like a denial by one of the producers (which included the typical qualifiers that allow an "out," naturally), I'm tenatively settling on the idea that what we saw was a swarm of nanobots, or at least some sort of nanotechnology. I'm still open to other ideas, though. ;)

Qapla'

SSB

I'm just getting into the show so I can't offer much in the way of insight (as if I ever do anyway).

But I will observe that there seems to be one heck of a lot of stuff going on with all the various characters. I plan to watch the next few episodes and see if it will hook me. And I'm expecting that it will.

Huzz

Enjoyed last night's LOST - even though the opinions here at work are all over the chart.
I thought it gave good insight into Charlie's actions. He's trying to fill a void in his life, but it took Claire and Locke to confront him with reality - he's not the father, and they aren't his nuclear family.
The producers even addressed one of my earlier complaints - the characters referenced, on-screen, off screen discussions and previous events. Charlie's comments about every one else's visions helped to fill that void, and probably prevented alot of forum comments that would have been posted about this episode as well. All in all it was one of the more satisfying episodes in terms of addressing outstanding issues.
I agree with other posted comments that Libby knew Hurley from the asylum, and that her motivation may be his lottery winnings.
Another comment that was interesting - that Eko was selecting trees to use in building a church.
Despite the producer's comments, I still think nano-technology explains the "monster".
I don't know why Locke "locked" away the statues, as opposed to destroying them.

I'm just getting into the show so I can't offer much in the way of insight (as if I ever do anyway).

But I will observe that there seems to be one heck of a lot of stuff going on with all the various characters. I plan to watch the next few episodes and see if it will hook me.Are you just getting into the show via the currently airing episodes, or are you starting with the first season?

Qapla'

SSB

I read "PREY" a while back. I instantly though "nanobots" in 'LOST" too, but , with the images displayed in the cloud, they'd have to be mind reading Nanobots.......

SSB - just starting!

Huzz

Definitely start with season one ... more so than any other show ever, this one not only really NEEDS careful attention paid to each episode, it almost demands it.

Get the DVD set for season one, and then prepare yourself for a "lost" weekend. And I didn't realize I'd made a pun there until after I'd typed it!

Qapla'

SSB