Anybody else wonder if getting those cells into Roslin has been the Cylon's main goal all along?

Baltar's conversion to being a deliberate traitor is now complete....

I wonder if Roslin will act on Baltar now that she remembers him kissing Six at the plaza. And I wonder how she will be treated (by herself and others) now that she has Cylon cells in her.

BTW, interesting BSG commercial with the baby.

José

Anybody else wonder if getting those cells into Roslin has been the Cylon's main goal all along?

I don't think so. The Cylons couldn't have known that Rosalind would leave the city to join the Galactica decommision ceremony and survive the initial attach which killer her husband.

I was thinking that the "great Cylon Plan" was two fold.

One - to irradicate the enemy, the humans and -----

Two - to also turn themselves into a living race. With the humanoid cylons ability to give birth, I was wondering if the Cylons had developed a way to transfer their consciouness into a living baby before birth. Naturally, the Cylons would have engineered into the genetics a superior defense to diseases such as cancer which explains why the fetus blood was able to cure Rosalind's cancer.

Anybody else wonder if getting those cells into Roslin has been the Cylon's main goal all along?

Taking the role of a conspiracy theorist, that would explain why they spared her ship in the initial attack.

José

Taking the role of a conspiracy theorist, that would explain why they spared her ship in the initial attack.

José

If so then they are going to some lengths right from the start, her ship was fired upon by the cylons when it was being escorted by Lee in the pilot episode.

He managed to get the Cylon missile to track him and then destroyed it. That said however and backing up our now apparent conspiracy theorist, that could all be part of the 'plan', clever buggers these Cylons and to quote Roslin "We know they are masters of manipulation"

All good noodle baking stuff !

I'm wondering by what magic the Pegasus managed to avoid being taken out by the Cylon virus (you know, the one that infects networked ships? the one that the Galactica was spared specifially because it was obsolete tech)

I don't even mean the original attack, I mean "today" every minute it exists, it's at risk. Or are we to assume that the Cylons are using the Wile Coyote method of only using the same trick once?

Plus all of Pegasus' Vipers (all of the new ones) should have been sitting ducks.

Inquiring minds, ...

^^I was wondering the same thing but I think that one must come to the conclusion that they've retro-retro-fitted the Pegasus and her fighters with tech that is immune to such vira (in much the same way that I'm still using Windows '95 without a firewall or virus protection :p )

The Cylons couldn't have known that Rosalind would leave the city to join the Galactica decommision ceremony and survive the initial attach which killer her husband.I don't think Roslin and President Adar were married ... I think they were having an affair.

BTW, interesting BSG commercial with the baby.
I thought so too.

Well ... We knew it was coming ... especially after the last few episodes. I found the episode interesting. Although this is a lull in the action, and not all that exciting, it was still far from being a dud.

Interesting plot points and questions brought up in this "stage setting" episode are:

1) How could Roslin "remember" seeing Baltar and Six during her meeting with Mr. Stans in the park? Based on the cloths the characters wore, this is the same meeting between Balter and Six that occurred in the miniseries. According to the sequence of events in the miniseries, Roslin could not have been there. She was already on the transport enroute to Galactica.

2) Will the person that Six meets in the park during the miniseries finally be revealed?

a) Will that person be a Cylon or a Cylon sympathizer?
b) Will that person be someone we already know?
1. President Adar (revealed to be a sympathizer)? Who: a. In TOS was duped into a peace treaty with the Cylons resulting in the attack (All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again).
b. Has at least one mistress (Roslin) and possibly more (including Six (You DAWG!!)).

2. Roslin (revealed to be a Cylon * )? Who:
a. Theoretically couldn't have witnessed Baltar and Six in the park and be enroute to Galactica at the same time.
b. For some reason was able to recognize or pick out Baltar and Six in a crowded park.
c. In several previous episodes, has proven her skill at manipulation (a known Cylon tactic).
d. Was in a position to influence and manipulate President Adar prior to the attack.
e. Was placed in to the office of President by an automated computer program.
f. Pushed the issue that the colonials "need to get the hell out of here and start having babies" (having babies being one of the main Cylon objectives).
g. Initially didn't believe in Adama's "Journey to Earth", but now it permeates her thoughts ... possibly in order to find the thirteenth tribe of humans and annihilate it.
* (note) She's probably not a Cylon since she has or had breast cancer ... but that too could have been by design so the Cylons could experience it.

3. Billy (revealed to be a Cylon)? Who:
a. Shows up out of nowhere, and is a surprise to Roslin in the Mini as her new assistant.
1. Why would she need a new assistant if she were going to be fired?
b. Conveniently, coincidentally and allegedly looses his entire family in the attack.
c. Is in a position to manipulate Roslin most of the time.
1. Except when Roslin escapes Galactica to go to Kobol ... changing his position from "Stand(ing) with our President" to "a line I will not cross".
d. Does not believe in the gods (as revealed in a podcast and hinted to in on-screen dialogue).
e. Is one of the characters involved in a romantic relationship (with Dee).

4. Ellen Tigh (revealed to be a Cylon)? Who:
a. Was presumed to be dead, but magically re-appears out of nowhere.
b. Had multiple affairs with other officers in the Colonial Fleet (possibly as part of an intelligence gathering mission).
c. Is the most manipulative, scheming and trouble causing character on the show.
d. Still could be a Cylon due to Baltar obviously not being honest about all of his Cylon detector results.
e. As a recurring guest character, hasn't been seen in a while and is due to make an appearance.
f. Has been in a sexually active marriage that has produced no children (not in and of itself peculiar ... but in the context of this story, it lends itself to the possibility).
g. If actually revealed to be a Cylon, would be a perfect dramatic catalyst to effect both Baltar (for lying about her true nature) and Col Tigh (for trusting, loving and ultimately being fooled by her).

5. Dualla (revealed to be a cylon)? Who:
a. Has had a lot more screen time lately.
b. Was not killed when the Cylon's boarded the Galactica (unlike everyone else in the compartment with her).
c. Although already in a relationship with Billy, appears to be developing feelings for Apollo.

3) What will happen to Sharon and her baby now that they know she can cure diseases like cancer?

4) Now that Roslin can place Baltar with a known Cylon Agent, will she go public with that information?

5) Will there be a showdown between Sharon and Gina?

6) The immediate result of the Cylon cells injected in to Roslin has cured her cancer ...but will there be other side effects (i.e. make her more sympathetic toward the Cylons, or take over her mind (like a borg assimilation)?

One thing is for sure ... a lot of doors have been opened in this episode ... and the possibilities are virtually endless.

Don't forget that the big problem with the Colonial fleet and fighters was the upgraded nav program that Baltar (unknowingly) allowed the Cylons to corrupt with a "trojan horse" backdoor. Pegasus was going in for a refit at the time of the attack, maybe they hadn't installed the software yet. Remember, that's the big reason Galactica got away - they didn't bother to install the new nav program since they were being decomissioned, but their M.VII Vipers were presumably going to be reassigned - and they did get hit with the backdoor shutdown command.

OK,

The PodCast from Ron Moore stated that he goofed up in continuity with this episode. In short, the scenes on Capraca were to have been the last day. But 6 and Baltar were at Baltar's home and not at that park.
President Adar was modeled after President Clinton and his affars.

The outfit Gina is found in, Different styled hair and glasses, were to be like Superman/Clark Kent but did not work out as wanted.

Gina and the Cylon peace movement have a Nuke and Ron said it will be used in the last show of the season.

Roslin getting the Cylon blood is like the leader of the Klu-Kulx-Klan getting blood from a black person. This event did happen and was presented by a 1950's CBS interview of the then leader of the KKK. Quote:"anyone having as much as one drop of black blood is .....". It was revealed that this guy was in the Korean war and was given blood transfusion in the battle field. Roslin is in this guys role and now must face the fact that she is now part Cylon and a member of the ones she hates deeply and wants dead.

This episode seemed to come as close to "jumping the shark" as it possibly could. Maybe "jumping the shark" is too severe, rather they reverted to a very sci-fi "cheat" in order to save the President's life.

Not unlike what was done with Captain Kirk and the injection of adrenaline in order to reverse his near-death from old age brought on from radiation sickness in "The Deadly Years" and revert him to his youthful self in a matter of moments, as was done in a very similar form in this episode.

I knew that time was getting short, and they would find some way of saving the character's life, but I was a bit disappointed in the particular way that this was brought about. Had they not just destroyed the Cylon "resurrection ship", then I would have expected that she would have expired, only to awaken abruptly elsewhere in a "new" body, then coming to the self-realization that she, too, is a Cylon.

Oh, well. It's just a TV show. :)

Anyone notice the location where the outdoor plaza scene and where she was talking with the militant educaton guy was? It was that college in Vancouver where the SG-1 episode "Between Two Fires" was filmed.

Also, the education guy with the beard, he played the Jaffa slave driver in the episode "Orpheus".

Being as this is BSG, that "cheat" they used to save Roslin's life will come back to haunt them - somehow. The other shoe will drop.

^ Agreed. The S will hit the fan sooner or later.

I knew that time was getting short, and they would find some way of saving the character's life, but I was a bit disappointed in the particular way that this was brought about. Had they not just destroyed the Cylon "resurrection ship", then I would have expected that she would have expired, only to awaken abruptly elsewhere in a "new" body, then coming to the self-realization that she, too, is a Cylon.

I thought about that, but then I considered this: What would be worse? Discovering you're the enemy or having part of the enemy in you?

José

Being as this is BSG, that "cheat" they used to save Roslin's life will come back to haunt them - somehow. The other shoe will drop.

Absolutely and well said!

Whether getting those cells into Roslin was either part or the focus of the Cylon conspiracy, I'm pretty sure we will see that material again.

Not unlike what was done with Captain Kirk and the injection of adrenaline in order to reverse his near-death from old age brought on from radiation sickness in "The Deadly Years" and revert him to his youthful self in a matter of moments, as was done in a very similar form in this episode.

I don't think any of us believed Roslin was going to die, and quite a few of us predicted Cylon blood would be the magic cure that would save her. What saves this plot point from being a "cheat" is the fact that it creates more dramatic tension than it eases. Sure, the cancer has been beaten, but at what cost to Roslin and the fleet?

The adrenaline injection that saved Kirk would have no repercussions in future episodes. By "infusing" Roslin with Cylon blood the writers have set the stage for some potentially explosive conflict between Roslin and Adama, Roslin and the colony she governs, and perhaps most interestingly, Roslin and herself (e.g. Am I still human? Can I trust my own judgment? Am I now a tool of the Cylons?, etc).

Doc Cottle may have been right; letting Roslin die would probably have been the humane thing to do. In any case, by trying to cheat death Adama has made a Faustian bargain that will come back to haunt them.

OK, Here's my admittedly cynical take on the Roslin situation.
I noticed that at the end of season one you had the two most famous and expensive actors in near death situations.

What if it was a way to cut costs if the show hadn't done as well as it has in ratings and they were preparing to write out one or both if they needed to cut the budget?

Or, one step further. let's say that they had doubts that the show was going to be picked up after the mini-series? "What the heck, let's give her cancer...it's dramatic as all get out, and we'll never need to pay it off. It's not like the show is going to get picked up... " and then "You mean we got the series? we'll it not like we gotta cure cancer or...ooops"

and another point about the whole "you can't rape a machine" debate...

I think that the question you should be asking is are the humaniod Cylons really "only machines" anymore?

I think if the characteristic that defines humanity is the ability to look at "programming or rules" and say "no".

Do we know for sure that Cylon Boomer (the mama) is acting for or against her Cylon brethern?

^ I'm kind of wondering how the Pegasus found out that there were human Cylons. The only reason the Galactica found this out because it was a way for Baltar to get out of being labelled a traitor.

By extension, if it took Pegasus longer to figure out that the human Cylons existed, meaning they had more contact and interaction with them, wouldn't they have the same reservations that some in the Galactica have whether they're just machines?

José

I think that the question you should be asking is are the humaniod Cylons really "only machines" anymore?

Well, this is a question the series has been asking in just about every episode since its inception. Clearly the producers are trying to keep an open mind on the subject, preferring to let us decide for ourselves.

Do we know for sure that Cylon Boomer (the mama) is acting for or against her Cylon brethern?

No. At this point any theories re: Boomer's true motives are purely speculative.

Will the nuke be used to destory the Pegasus?

Yes.

OK, only a prediction.

I did read some pretty revealing spoliers for the rest of the season and interesting things are in store if they are accurate. They are here if you care to see, but don't say I didn't warn you.

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=22229

I think I'm going to hold off on the spoilers but thanks, all the same. I like to be surprised.

Nothing too revealing there. From the spoilers I've seen, and my own guesses, I think Pegasus will be around for at least the start of Season 3.

^^I think you're right.

I did read some pretty revealing spoliers for the rest of the season and interesting things are in store if they are accurate. They are here if you care to see, but don't say I didn't warn you.

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=22229
Wow! ... I wonder who's gonna ... ... oops!!! ... ... I guess I can't ask that yet! :rolleyes: ;)

Well, after tonight's episode and the preview, the spoilers seem to be accurate. So I guess Starbuck had the night off?Although I knew everything was leading to Apollo's decisive action, I was still surprised.

Who's in command of Pegasus? Adama?

Great episode! Just saw it a little bit ago on HD-DVR.

I was surprised that they killed him off so quickly or that they did at all.

I wonder what the doctor made of all those mysterious clumps of cigarette ashes on the body.

Although I knew everything was leading to Apollo's decisive action, I was still surprised.
I was and I wasn't. I felt the whole point of the episode was to put Apollo in his father's shoes as per the assassination order for Cain – sometimes good people have to do terrible things for the greater good - sometimes the best way to deal with an unredeemable soul is to kill it. Even more, using that killing as a warning to other to behave. I thought it was a really nicely done piece that gave Apollo context with his father's life – thus the shared knowing drink at the end.

John O.

I think he was set up by the old Apollo to do his dirty work for him.

You may be onto something there. Zarek showed up at an opportune time and was surprisingly forthcoming by naming the Prometheus. Aptly named ship BTW. In mythology, Prometheus defied Zeus and gave fire to the mortals. So this ship in defiance of Zeus/Adama/Roslin is giving necessities to the civies. Well, not giving, but you get the idea.

I think he was set up by the old Apollo to do his dirty work for him.Ya, absolutely. After Apollo leaves, Zarek is seen moving through the Prometheus market place.

After this episode you would think that Pegasus would beef up security and change the locks on the CO's quarters!! :freak:

They've pretty much left no doubt about the corruption infesting not only the Pegasus ... Two CO's murdered, greedy black market strong arm tactics, piracy, murder, conspiracies and apathy among the crew ... but the entire fleet as well.

I suppose it would be easier if our "heroes" on Galactica had fewer flaws. I do see the point of having them portrayed as flawed to a certain point ... everyone gets a little dirty sometimes ... even the "holier-than-thou" types ... but the flaws seem to be taking over and these people are in it up to their eyeballs and sinking fast!

These people need a hero ... real fast and in a hurry ... Who will it be?

I know it makes for "good drama" and adds reality ... Lord knows that "Brady Bunched" story lines tend to be boring ... especially when done over and over ... but IMO, I'm finding that I'm not really liking this story progression. I get enough "reality" out in the real world.

Maybe Bill Adama and the Cylons were right. Maybe the Colonial civilization isn't "worthy of survival". After the last couple of weeks I'm thinking that the Cylons really don't need to do anything more. The Colonials will destroy humanity all by themselves ... from within.

I do see these story lines starting to progress in a direction that will eventually spark valid but heated philosophical, ethical, moral and religious debates ... Which is probably RDM's intention ... to make us think ... which in and of itself is a good thing. However, I feel that it may eventually get to the point where all we can discuss (not only here but on other boards as well (in the interest of keeping things civil)) are the special effects shots.

I liked the ep, but the Apollo/Shevon thing felt clumsy to me. It was a WTF? moment, as in, where did this come from? Supposedly Apollo had seen her before and developed a strong bond with Shevon... but we've never seen her before.

It was like that Voyager episode where a dead crewmember came back to life and everyone was going off about how they missed that person... except she was never shown/mentioned/portrayed before.

José

Ya, absolutely. After Apollo leaves, Zarek is seen moving through the Prometheus market place.

True. It may have just been that Zarek took advantage of the situation as it turned out. He may have really been honest when talking to Apollo.

But then, with his connections to the criminal underworld via his comrades on the prison ship, it seems more likely he had this planned to some extent.

OK,

Gina and the Cylon peace movement have a Nuke and Ron said it will be used in the last show of the season.


I wonder if they use it to blow up the Pegasus.
Gina's last retribution to all those who abused her and possibly the fullfilment of her original mission goals.

I think I felt that the black market episode is one that I've cared for the least in the whole series.

While there may be a little bit of a black market situation, I think it would be more of a simple barting system.

I don't agree with the number of lowlifes found concentrated on Promethious.
While space flight might be more commonplace, it certainly is probably still pretty expensive and hence not attracting that many customers of that inclination.

Whats up with Fisk. He seemed like the only humane person of Pegasus, and the very next episode with him in it, he's a pig. Then......they kill him. What was the frack'n point?

Quite frankly, I think they shortchanged themselves on killing Cain so fast. There could have been two or three more good episodes there before doing her in. Remember the old Cain sort of did some questionanble things, but ultimately redeemed himself by throwing himself at the three base ships and drawing the raiders away from the fleet. You left the old Cain, liking him.
This Cain had no chance to redeem herself, you left just thinking that she was a bitch. You don't get the impression she cared about the fleet or humanity in general, instead you remember she left a bunch of humans to dye and actually ordered civilians killed.

...instead you remember she left a bunch of humans to dye ...

What color were they dyed? ;)


Anyhoo - I'm disappointed the hooker wasn't Cassiopea from TOS. Perfect chance to include another old character.

The whole Fisk transformation was pretty abrupt, even casual students of episodic television could tell he was doomed the second he started gobbling those nuts instead of listening to Adama and Roslin.

Bill Duke was a good bad guy as usual, but the whole "will he shoot or not" and the "Here we are at this point in time,let's flashback and see how we got here and then show the resolution" plotlines have both kinda been done to death.

And I agree it might have been more interesting if Caine and the rest of the Pegasus crew weren't so cartoony bad & evil.

Still, even a mediocre episode of BSG is better than 90% of what's on these days.

Whats up with Fisk. He seemed like the only humane person of Pegasus, and the very next episode with him in it, he's a pig. Then......they kill him. What was the frack'n point?


That just goes to show how bad the Pegasus crew actually were.
He was one of the better ones, and look what happened when he got the power.

Although it's true that Cain had that bitchy disposition most of the time ... I think she did have a moment of redemption when she didn't follow through with Adama's "termination".

I was left with the feeling that she was, ever so slightly, beginning to reconsider her own tactics. She was seeing for herself that she may have been a little narrow minded with regard to Galactica and her fleet, and that she needed them as much as they needed her.

She knew from the very beginning that she needed the Galactica and her crew in order to defeat the Cylon fleet, but ...

Through the battle, she learned that Adama was, in fact, a loyal and honorable man. Even though she and Adama didn't see eye to eye on a lot of things, he could be counted on when things got really tough, and that he really wasn't the enemy.

Through Baltar, she got info on the Resurrection ship that she never would have gotten otherwise through her strong-arm torture tactics.

Through Starbuck she learned how Adama's "closeness" with his crew (which she initially thought to be a weakness) fostered great loyalty and respect ... not out of fear ... not just for the rank and uniform ... but true loyalty and respect for the person in that uniform.

They made a point of showing her removing her sidearm, placing it on the table and walking away from it. I think it was for two reasons:

The first (and most obvious) was to show that she was unarmed while facing Gina.

The second (to me) was sort of symbolic in nature. We all know that RDM likes "Patton" and has made reference to Patton in the past. Cain struck me as "Patton-esque" in that she always spoke her mind and she always wore her sidearm ... always had her hand on or near it. She probably slept with it under her pillow. However, I feel she removed it at the end because she came to the realization that Adama really wasn't her enemy. The real battle against the enemy ... the true enemy ... was over and won, and she could finally let her guard down, relax from the stress and breath a sigh of relief. Unfortunately for her, Gina was waiting right around the corner.

[QUOTE=John P]What color were they dyed? ;)
QUOTE]


:roll: :lol: :roll: :lol:

Still, even a mediocre episode of BSG is better than 90% of what's on these days.

True. They can't all be winners. That's another characteristic of episodic television.

Anyhoo - I'm disappointed the hooker wasn't Cassiopea from TOS. Perfect chance to include another old character.

I thought that, too. Or, Serena lowered to hooking, with a gender-changed Boxy.

. . . Serena lowered to hooking, with a gender-changed Boxy.

That's what I was thinking at first.

What color were they dyed? ;)

It's a... it's... ummm.. it's green.

José

Well, we have seen Boxey. He was in the miniseries, and in several Season 1 deleted scenes. Presumably he's still around, but hasn't been seen for a long time.

It's a... it's... ummm.. it's green.

José

Ha ha, or the Data version, "It is green."

Well, we have seen Boxey. He was in the miniseries, and in several Season 1 deleted scenes. Presumably he's still around, but hasn't been seen for a long time.

In the miniseries director's comments, Ron Moore stated that Boxey's Dad was that guy killed in the begining at that space station.