View Full Version : Copper Welding


markkaz
01-19-2006, 03:07 AM
It looks like this is ordinary copper pipes. What this sculpture is part of the "rolling ball" or "marble run" genre. It's hard to see from the pic but the marble starts at the top and has multiple paths to take.

I want to do this as well. I am developing marble-themed birthday parties. I will supply toy parts as shown below for the kids to make their own marble runs. I will also provide pre-built marble runs with special themes.

My question is, how do you suppose this person welds parts to the outside of the copper tubing? I have done a little work with copper tubing and it's amazing how the flux sucks in the sauter and creates a weld. Would this process work as well? If not, what silver product is he using to weld?

http://racegrooves.com/mg/CopperWelding.JPG

http://racegrooves.com/mg/MarbleRunPieces.jpg

OVAL4EVER
02-25-2006, 08:25 PM
yes soilder it, and be sure to sand/ clean the joint first, all you need is a propane torch.

markkaz
02-26-2006, 12:01 AM
Thanks!

DJ1978
03-06-2006, 03:33 PM
there are several types of solder you can use... but that is about it. there are complicated processes for welding copper. Not many available to the general public.
Just remember... Solder flows to where ever there is flux. Clean your parts well and be careful with the flux. Take your time.
Hope this helps.
You can use copper, Brass, and steel, but NOT aluminum.
Dan

markkaz
03-06-2006, 08:16 PM
Thank you very much for the reply :)

My friend helped me with replacing some pipes. It is amazing how the welding/sauter gets sucked in by the flux!

it's a shame that the aluminum won't work because it would add a nice color contrast to the structure.

rickster58
07-07-2006, 09:14 AM
You can probablly connect the aluminum to the copper using acid based flux and regular pipe solder. The less flux that you use the neater the joints will look. Too much heat and the solder will run off like water. Good luck!

CORO KID
11-23-2006, 10:15 PM
That is amazing piece of artwork!!! Soldering copper is not that bad just clean joints with wire brush or emery cloth tin with solder and some kind of Flux preferred acid based which you need to clean with a wet cloth after.Small propane torch will work for soldering them. The aluminum joint you will have to glue or pin and keep acid flux away from those joints Silver soldering you need more heat and clean joints but you don`t need the silver for this project. Check on DYI website for soldering
I want to see picture
Happy Holidays
Corokid

markkaz
11-23-2006, 11:16 PM
Definitely cool stuff!

I have to wait on having a marble-themed concept. My track parties are doing well and I want to add some options first. Then I have another concept coming. After that, I will do the marble concept.

In case others read this topic about welding, a similar topic came up on the customizing board at JoesDiecastShack.com. Here's the direct link (http://p083.ezboard.com/fjoesdiecastshackfrm12.showMessage?topicID=3151.to pic)to the topic.

I will past some of the info here as well:


zamac84 asked: Soldering brass. How's it done?

I've been messing around a bit, tying to learn how to solder small brass tubing/rod. Does anyone have any tips on how to best do this?
Here are some questions I have.
-Is it better to use a torch or soldering gun/pen?
-What type of solder should be used?
-What's the best flux to use? Do you need flux?
-When you're making, say a frame for a car trailer(1/64), is it better to use tubing or solid rod?
-How in the world do you hold the parts in place while you are holding the torch/soldering gun and solder? I need three hands!
I'm sure it's just going to take a lot of practice, but some tips from those that know what they're doing would be a great help.
Thank you in advance!!!

gatorjr56 wrote: Hey Guy's
^^^^^^^What zamac84 said^^^^^^
I'm thinking of trying it to, For trailers and frames.
Gator Gotta Gater-Dunn

blukat9 wrote: VISE WITH CLAMPS...CHEERS

bondoman2k wrote: Here's what I use. Soldering IRON (gun does not work as well) ..40 watt Ungar, with 'silver clad tip', you'd need to check with hobby shops, may need to order it. Stay-Brite solder and clear liquid flux (sold togethewr..check local hobby shops) DO NOT solder the brass on an aluminum board (whatever you put under it). The aluminum acts as a heat sink, and makes it harder to solder properly. I use a wood board. BE VERY CAREFUL as this will get VERY hot! When you get it done, be sure to wash it and clean it with a solution of baking soda and water (a consistency 'paste' works better and a small brush works nice too)This neutralizes the acid in the flux. Also paint will not stick to it if the flux isn't clean, should you decide to paint it.
I have done quite a few diecast chassis with this, as well as 1/25 scale slot drag racing chassis for 10 years (and these run at 40 to 100 ACTUAL mph! And they all held up well too!!;) )
Ron :hat

wilcoxg wrote: Ron's information is very good and our experionce with slot racers is similar. I will add a couple of tips from my experience. Brass is a pretty good heat conductor and when assembling something with a bunch of short pieces, one joint will fall apart as you are heating another. There are a couple of ways to overcome this. The easiest is to back up the completed joint with an aluminum heat sink, taking advantage of the property Ron mentioned. You can also take advantage of solders with different melting points. I actually use silver solder, heating with a torch, and then soft solder with an iron for subsequent assemblies. You can heat a silver solder joint all day with a gun or iron and never get it hot enough to melt. You can also buy heat sink past at most any welding supply house and use it to protect assembled joints.

Please remember that soldering produces fumes, many of which are toxic, so work with adequate ventilation and wash up when finished. In the winter I usually solder directly in front of my Franklin stove so the fumes are drawn up the chimney. gunslinger gary wilcox

zamac84 wrote: Thanks for the tips guys. Looks like I have alot of practicing ahead of me!

audioman70 wrote: since you're doing such small work, best thing to do is PLAN

lay out your work, then tint each joint with a little solder, makes things flow a lot easier and less heat needed.

Bruce Hopf
12-03-2008, 11:17 PM
Soldering Copper is pretty easy to do. Brass is the same. The Trick here is to make sure you clean where you are planning to do your Soldering.
Another thing that you need to know, is when you go buy your Propane Kit, Use one that you can regulate your heat well. Cheaper is not Better for Soldering, or the proper term is Sweating, your Joints.
Not all Propane is a good Quality to use for this Job. The best that I have found, is Benzomatic Propane, that you can get in a Yellow Cylinder that is used for a small Torch Kit that has Both Oxygen, and Gas for Brazing, but you use it with just a plain Torch. The other Propanes are not hot enough to melt the Solder, as I have found out. Hope this helps. Bruce.

Minreg
12-04-2008, 12:36 AM
The run itself looks to be small diameter brass to me.
The big frame is certainly copper.

Im not sure but I think the brass was chosen because it is soft and you can with some work get all those bends in it.

I did a 10th-12th scale trailer from hollow brass tube years ago. I used a soldering iron with a wide flat tip, probably a Weller at that time.

I remember that when an already soldered joint was near the next joint to be soldered, sometimes the old joint would become desoldered. Very tricky for me at the time.

Wonder if the torch would be better or worse for small diameter brass.

markkaz
04-14-2009, 12:53 AM
As I mentioned earlier, I was curious about the brass marble run structure because it is a party theme that I would like to offer in the future. While the copper is beautiful and rather easy to work with, it has some drawbacks.

Mainly, kids at birthday parties have so much adrenaline that they would destroy any fixture that was not rigid. They don't understand and they can't help it. Not only that, but the copper would tarnish and I don't want to keep removing the tarnish.

If you aren't aware of marble runs, they are cool to watch!
Here is a general YouTube search for Marble Runs.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=marble+run&aq=f

Some of the most elaborate are done by this fellow!
http://www.youtube.com/user/jelleknikkers