Tomorrow night at 10:00. Set your Tivos and VCRs. :)

...and Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis.

And also 12 hours of Firefly episodes all day! I'm probably the only one on this board who has never seen it. Have all the VCRs set to get it all.

Which three episodes of Firefly are being cut? (14 episodes, 1 two hours, 15 hours total production).

It certainly is party night at my house. Sci-Fi Fridays are eagerly looked forward to here.

Even The Mrs. Looks forward to this! Believe me that sez Volumes about the Quality of this Series.The only other show we wait for with this much anticipation is "Nip/Tuck" Actually we both have fun watching "Law And Order: Criminal Intent", But that's just fun to watch Vincent D'enofreo do this "Bending over" thing Like some kind of Raptor when he's getting in the face of some Criminal lol But yeah, Galactica (sofar) has Truly adult stories and not too heavy on effects so's to keep the Non-Sci-Fi Fans interested.

John/Lonfan

And also 12 hours of Firefly episodes all day! I'm probably the only one on this board who has never seen it. Have all the VCRs set to get it all.

Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to just buy the DVD set? It's going for under $30 in some places.

I'm REALLY looking forward to watching Eddie J wipe that smirk off of Michelle Forbes face tonight!

I thought they had a President, not a Premier.

Huzz

I think Roslin will get in the middle of it before that happens.

José

Yeah but Gato, Educate me Please, COULD Madame El' Presidente Actually do anthing to help Adama come out on top of this? I mean what exactly is the extent of her Power? I know we'll see it tonight but I'm just thinkin' Tigh (is that his name?) was able to have her thrown in the Tank so I gather she doesn't have as much power as him? well anyhoo Happy New Years
BTW I wonder if any of you guys who were Pissed when this new Galactica was first announced,have changed your Opinions now that you've seen it? (I mean there was aprox. 20 Pages on the "Clubhouse" BB about how much this was gonna suck and they shoulda not ruined another Classic...Well I'll always love the Original (Just for those Nifty Cylon Suits alone! lol) Anyhoo

John/Lonfan

Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to just buy the DVD set? It's going for under $30 in some places.

Easier, maybe.

However, $30 on a series sight-unseen vs. 10 minutes of programming VCRs for free? No contest.

Now, if I really like it, maybe I'll consider the purchase.

WHAT?? I log in and no one is talking about last night's Galactica. Have all of you lost faith? :cry:

Yeah but Gato, Educate me Please, COULD Madame El' Presidente Actually do anthing to help Adama come out on top of this? I mean what exactly is the extent of her Power? I know we'll see it tonight but I'm just thinkin' Tigh (is that his name?) was able to have her thrown in the Tank so I gather she doesn't have as much power as him? well anyhoo Happy New Years
BTW I wonder if any of you guys who were Pissed when this new Galactica was first announced,have changed your Opinions now that you've seen it? (I mean there was aprox. 20 Pages on the "Clubhouse" BB about how much this was gonna suck and they shoulda not ruined another Classic...Well I'll always love the Original (Just for those Nifty Cylon Suits alone! lol) Anyhoo

John/Lonfan

The President of the 12 Colonies is technically the CIC of the military. Early on (either in the miniseries or the first handful of episodes), Roslyn and Adama came to an agreement where he had complete military command, and she handles the political duties. So, in theory, she's CIC - and she tried to pull that card out of her hat during the meeting with Cain and Adama.

I'm under the weather, but did watch.

Overall an average episode. Perhaps this midseason premier structure had me expecting more. I liked seeing Adama and the President growing closer. According to the Doc, she only has weeks left. Of course, in TV time that could stretch into months. The last couple of minutes of the show were intense though. In two weeks, I predict things will really hit the fan. I'm betting the next episode ends with Starbuck leveling her gun at Cain as we saw in the preview. We'll probably also see the Pegasus XO and the Marines taking over the Galactica bridge. "to be continued."

So, how is it possible that the Cylons with their advanced technology didn't detect the stealth ship, yet as soon as Starbuck jumped back, she was immediately ID'ed by both the Pegasus and the Galactica?

Also, if the resurrection ship can transfer dying Cylons even over great distance, that means there is some sort of link between Cylons and the ship? Or, between some Cylon respository somewhere. If that's the case, any Cylon onboard can be tracked by the Cylons within transfer distance? Sounds like a good reason to ditch Gina and Boomer.

The Pegasus XO is the only real 'human' person in that bunch. And by 'Human' I really mean Humain.

I bet neither one Starbuck/Peg. XO. can pull off their mission.
Starbuck can't pull it off because she's starting to respect Cain (though she hasn't seen her really ugly side yet).

I've wondered if Cain wasn't a cylon considering how shes treated all the humans shes run into.

And the Pegasus XO can't pull it off because he's losing faith in Cain and thinking shes going too far.

I was suprise at how quickly Roslin jumped to the 'get rid of her' concept.

As for Roslin dying, since shes already signed for a third season, look for some cure.
The whole 'Everything has happened before, and will happen again' mantra offers a lot of clues.
EVERYTHING when broken down to the most basic level that has happened in the new series had a counterpart in the orginal series.
Look for something equal to the 'ship of lights' concept to have a hand in the cure of Roslin.

Actually, Ron D. Moore has said that he has no plans to revisit the "Ship of Lights" in the forseeable future. Supposedly he won't be revisiting anything from "War of the Gods" any time soon, either. However....

Partial SPOILER:
There's something about some Stem Cell research coming up in three or four episodes, tho I don't want to spoil it beyond that.

It sure kept me on the edge of my seat. This time, the music added to the tension ... The "war drums" beating as the vipers from Galactica and Pegasus swarmed around each other was perfect.

I got a bit of a kick out of the scene where Adama and Cain meet on Colonial One ... kind of like being called to the principal's office ... especially when Adama gave his "I wouldn't count on that" wise-crack.

There were things in this episode that completely threw me for a loop (besides Cain's overbearing execution-happy behavior).

For example ... Roslin's advice to Adama as to how to deal with Cain blew me away because I never would have thought that she would even think of doing such a thing, much less say it. It was completely out of character for her ... as Adama noted by later asking her "What's gotten in to you lately?" It was almost as if she were manipulating him like a Cylon would. Why would she go right past the "Commander in Chief" card and the "legal" card and straight to the most extreme solution possible? I'm also stunned that Adama actually appears to be taking that advice. However, In the end, I don't think Starbuck will pull the trigger.

Another thing that puzzles me is that, so far, absolutely no one has thought of holding Cain accountable for not only her war crimes, but her apparent crimes against the colonial civilian population as well. I mean, someone on the Pegasus had to know that stripping the civilian ships for parts and stranding their passengers, as well as the executions of the families on the Scylla was ethically, and morally wrong ... not to mention illegal. The crew of the Pegasus is behaving like they're from Star Trek's mirror universe ... or something like it.

It does seem to me that the XO of the Pegasus may be developing a conscience ... Someone on that ship needs to!

All in all, a good episode. I'm looking forward to next week!

For example ... Roslin's advice to Adama as to how to deal with Cain blew me away because I never would have thought that she would even think of doing such a thing, much less say it. It was completely out of character for her ... as Adama noted by later asking her "What's gotten in to you lately?" It was almost as if she were manipulating him like a Cylon would. Why would she go right past the "Commander in Chief" card and the "legal" card and straight to the most extreme solution possible? I'm also stunned that Adama actually appears to be taking that advice. However, In the end, I don't think Starbuck will pull the trigger.

Another thing that puzzles me is that, so far, absolutely no one has thought of holding Cain accountable for not only her war crimes, but her apparent crimes against the colonial civilian population as well. I mean, someone on the Pegasus had to know that stripping the civilian ships for parts and stranding their passengers, as well as the executions of the families on the Scylla was ethically, and morally wrong ... not to mention illegal. The crew of the Pegasus is behaving like they're from Star Trek's mirror universe ... or something like it.

I don't think it was out of character for Roslyn. She's seen how far Cain will go, and sees eliminating her as the only way to protect the civilians. With Cain gone, the rest of the Pegasus crew will follow the chain of command (i.e. Adama). I think Thrace and Fisk will both end up going against their orders.

As far as holding Cain accountable goes, she shot her original XO in CnC for disobeying an order that he thought went over the line. The rest of the crew seems to be afraid of her. As far as their behavior goes, it seems to be a good example of "groupthink" - look at what past groups like the Nazis and Soviets got people to do, because everyone else was doing it. :freak:

I didn't notice, but someone on another board pointed out that in the previews, the hand pointing the gun at caine when she says "frack you" - has a bruised wrist.

Gina?

Also, I think the Peg XO will turn on Caine when she gives the order. If I were him I'd get my ass over to the Galactica first, to get out of her reach. Then when the order is given, just surrender to Adama.

I didn't notice, but someone on another board pointed out that in the previews, the hand pointing the gun at caine when she says "frack you" - has a bruised wrist.

Gina?



Boomer.
They made a point of showing her bruised wrists when the doctor was checking her out after her 'attack'.

I was going to post about it yesterday, but was waiting for some actual discussion of the episode to start happening.

Not a bad episode, but I feel like they're stacking the deck making Caine so "bad". I personally think they could have made her ruthless and authoritarian enough that she would clash and be dealt with by Adama and Roslin, yet didn't have to allow her to encourage rape and shooting of families. One of the things I liked about the earlier Roslin/Adama conflict was you could see both sides of their positions, but Caine is pretty much indefensible.

My favorite moment was Laura's matter-of-fact assessment of their situation to Adama, I really hope they don't lose McDonnell, the way she also showed just a hint of being excited and rejuvenated by the conflict said loads about her character. Michelle Forbes was good, and is believable as a dangerous person. I too like the Pegasus XO.

So, how is it possible that the Cylons with their advanced technology didn't detect the stealth ship, yet as soon as Starbuck jumped back, she was immediately ID'ed by both the Pegasus and the Galactica?

My impression was Starbuck was picked up by both battlestars sensors after she transmitted to Lee. But I agree it wasn't realistic how close she went in for pictures though.

I just chalked up the closeness of the Blackbird to the Resurrection Ship as dramatic effect.

Boomer.
They made a point of showing her bruised wrists when the doctor was checking her out after her 'attack'.

I was going to post about it yesterday, but was waiting for some actual discussion of the episode to start happening.

Yes, but Baltar gave Gina a uniform and if you paid close enough attention to see the bruises you might have seen that there are green fatigues on that arm. Also, that scene took place in Cain's "ready room" area, which is on Pegasus. Gina is also on board Pegasus but G-Boomer is not. Gina very likely hates Cain with a passion while G-Boomer has never set eyes on her that we're aware of.

So, how is it possible that the Cylons with their advanced technology didn't detect the stealth ship, yet as soon as Starbuck jumped back, she was immediately ID'ed by both the Pegasus and the Galactica?

She was in "silent running" mode while coasting through the Resurrection Ship. As soon as she popped in by the Cylon fleet, she turned everything except the camera off. When she popped up over the two battlestars, she had all electronics going and was starting a data transmission. They probably saw her electronic emissions.

Yes, but Baltar gave Gina a uniform and if you paid close enough attention to see the bruises you might have seen that there are green fatigues on that arm. Also, that scene took place in Cain's "ready room" area, which is on Pegasus. Gina is also on board Pegasus but G-Boomer is not. Gina very likely hates Cain with a passion while G-Boomer has never set eyes on her that we're aware of.

True, but I don't think Gina is after revenge, if she was, she wouldn't do it with a gun, but with her bare hands.
While Boomer does know that Cain is the reason for her 'attack' which seems to have affected her quite a bit.

Also, in the scene, the hand doesn't look small enough to be Gina's.
Her hands are skinny and delicate looking.
While Boomers hands are more in line with the ones shown.
It isn't beyond reason that Boomer could steel a flight suit and slip over to the Pegasus in the confusion of battle.

So, how is it possible that the Cylons with their advanced technology didn't detect the stealth ship, yet as soon as Starbuck jumped back, she was immediately ID'ed by both the Pegasus and the Galactica?

I'll echo Spe130's comment that Starbuck was in silent mode when she went through the resurrection ship. How she was picked up by the Pegasus and Galactica may have been because Apollo asked her to send out a Cylon signal. In "Flight of the Phoenix" they said the stealth ship would be difficult to pick up in Andradus (I'm guessing this is Colonial radar). Turning that around it's possible to say that the stealth ship would not be seen unless it wants to be seen. Who knows what Apollo told her after she picked up his signal, but I can see them discussing a way to de-escalate the situation by distracting both ships. What bettter way to get them to stand down by reminding both ships who the real enemy is.

José

I agree that's possible. She powered up and was transmitting. But Gaeta reported dradus (sp?) contact which has always been analogous to radar which hints they can detect her presence whether or not she's transmitting. Of course, we don't know what dradus keys off. Physical objects, heat, electromagnetic energy, the stench of raw meat, who knows??

Good catches on the hand holding the gun to Cain in the preview. We catch a glimpse of Gina with a gun attempting suicide in either the preview or a commercial. So, at some point, she does have a gun. Does Baltar get it to her to assist her in killing herself? That's her only wish and he's trying to help? Upon learning that Cain is going to destroy her only chance to be resurrected, wouldn't that motivate Gina to kill Cain? Makes sense to me. Now how would Baltar smuggle a gun into the brig? Of course, he is the Veep, but the political hierarchy hasn't garnered much respect with the Pegasus crew.

I don't think it was out of character for Roslyn. She's seen how far Cain will go, and sees eliminating her as the only way to protect the civilians.I have to respectfully disagree on that. I can see Roslin "eliminating" Cain by relieving her of her command and/or placing her under arrest or even promoting Adama over her ... but for her to suggest the cold blooded murder of Cain as the only option??? No! Roslin is usually the "voice of reason". Granted, she'll throw a toaster out the airlock without batting an eye lash, however, in the Mini, she refused to allow the captain of the Astral Queen to throw his convicted prisoners out the airlock in order to conserve food and medicine. For her to recommend, or approve of the cold blooded murder of a human being is not in her character. Even Adama realized that.

As far as holding Cain accountable goes, she shot her original XO in CnC for disobeying an order that he thought went over the line. The rest of the crew seems to be afraid of her. As far as their behavior goes, it seems to be a good example of "groupthink" - look at what past groups like the Nazis and Soviets got people to do, because everyone else was doing it. :freak:That may be true ... Fear is a powerful motivational tool. But still, even in those situations, there were those that stood up for what was right ... no matter the cost. That trait is called "Honor" ... and I find it hard (but admittedly, not impossible) to believe that no one on the Pegasus (those that were actual members of the Colonial Fleet to start with) appears to have it.

I do agree that Fisk and Starbuck probably won't carry out their orders ... that is if those execution commands are even given.

I also have to agree with Griff. I think that if Cain gets shot, it will be Gina who pulls the trigger. Although I think that both Gina and Sharon have the motive, Gina has the greater opportunity ... especially with Sharon being locked up on Galactica.

I have to respectfully disagree on that. I can see Roslin "eliminating" Cain by relieving her of her command and/or placing her under arrest or even promoting Adama over her ... but for her to suggest the cold blooded murder of Cain as the only option??? No! Roslin is usually the "voice of reason". Granted, she'll throw a toaster out the airlock without batting an eye lash, however, in the Mini, she refused to allow the captain of the Astral Queen to throw his convicted prisoners out the airlock in order to conserve food and medicine. For her to recommend, or approve of the cold blooded murder of a human being is not in her character. Even Adama realized that..

And I gotta respectfully disagree with you. Roslin didn't have to worry the prisoners leading a coup or mutiny at that part of the Galactica story. When she made that decision they didn't know even know Zarak had unified and was leading the prisoners. Caine is obviously bad news.

That may be true ... Fear is a powerful motivational tool. But still, even in those situations, there were those that stood up for what was right ... no matter the cost. That trait is called "Honor" ... and I find it hard (but admittedly, not impossible) to believe that no one on the Pegasus (those that were actual members of the Colonial Fleet to start with) appears to have it.


It's a well documented fact that humans are capaple of atrocious acts, especially under the psychological blanket of "I was only doing what I was told by an authority figure".

I say It's Gina with the gun, for sure.
Starbuck did something to make sure the Vipers saw her, she knew it was going to stop the fighting, for a while anyway. I'm sure there was more to her conversation with Lee than what we saw.
I like how Kat called for the G Vipers to form up on her.
I can't see the President going anywhere.
Good thing Michele Forbes is very hot, or I'd really hate her character.
I hope everyone is getting the social commentary Ron Moore is putting in this show.
Best show on TV, period.

I agree that's possible. She powered up and was transmitting. But Gaeta reported dradus (sp?) contact which has always been analogous to radar which hints they can detect her presence whether or not she's transmitting. Of course, we don't know what dradus keys off. Physical objects, heat, electromagnetic energy, the stench of raw meat, who knows??

Modern radar doesn't get much unless transponders are turned on, at least the way they are normally tuned (look at what happened on 9/11/2001). I get the feeling the Blackbird is the same way - if she's powered up, you can see her by electromagnetic emissions. If she's powered down, it's damn near invisible. Remember when they first launched it in "Flight of the Phoenix" - Gaeta had Draedus contact until Starbuck decided to play hide-and-seek with Apollo. As soon as she started powering back up while nose-to-nose with Apollo's Viper, Gaeta picked her up again.

Well I was sayin' to the Mrs. BEFORE the show Friday that perhaps Ros' well somehow get a brand new Cylon Body...But then they have her making that joke with Adama ("I can't see you as a Blonde") so I guess that rules that idea out huh? Meanwhile,We are loving everything about this show! Oh and one other Speculation, The Mrs. Thinks that that XO from Caine's Ship (Guy with the Buzz Cut lol) will help stop Caine at the last minute.But frankly I think you guys idea's are a wee bit more interesting.I gotta be honest I had NO Clue who the hell "Gina" is till I kept reading. I thought all those Cylon Blondes had Numbers for names (such as Six or Seven of Nine?) So the "Girl" who keeps popping in on Baltar her name is Gina? As Johnny Carson Said, "I Did Not Know This" lol

JOHN/LONFAN

LonFan, the Cylon in Baltar's head is Cylon model #6. When she has a "mission" , like Gina did, it works better if they have a name. Boomer is probably # 11, or 8 or 3.....just guessing :)

Oh Tanx- Now last thing do ya' think the writers have just decided to abandon the plot device of the uh, um Breeding Centers? Remember last Season when they had Starbuck hooked up to that Machine that just kept this women Breeding and one of them asked Starbuck to "Kill Me" that was pretty chilling. But that seemed a little different than the kind of "Hive" Storage deal used in this latest episode,Would you agree? I'd like to see that story line revisited.

John/Lonfan

RDM has said that they'll get back to the Caprica storyline later in the season.

The breeding centers and the resurrection ship are completely different programs. Once the Cylons can reproduce organically, they won't need to manufacture bodies and save the programming.

It sounds like the Cylon's ultimate goal, or a side-effect of their efforts, may include completely independent thought as well as biological reproduction. At which point, some of them may rebel against the central control and side with the pursued human survivors.

Huzz

You kind of see that with CBoomer, though her main motivation so far is to protect her baby. Don't know if it's maternal instinct, part of her primary programming or both.

José

Roslin's advice to Adama as to how to deal with Cain blew me away because I never would have thought that she would even think of doing such a thing, much less say it. It was completely out of character for her ...

Out of character?... I'm not so sure.

Roslin believes (correctly, as it happens) that Admiral Cain intends to murder Commander Adama, an action likely to have a catastrophic effect on the Colonial survivors. Since she cannot protect Adama under the circumstances (i.e. her incapacitation) and as she is unwilling to allow what's left of the human race fall into the hands of an enemy she deems even more dangerous than the Cylons, she compromises her values in order to serve the greater good. I’m not saying she’s “right” to do so, but this is the same woman who played the religion card, engineered a mutiny aboard Galactica, and ordered the destruction of the Olympic Carrier. She’s got a survivor’s instinct, and is capable of operating in that murky Grey Zone of moral compromise “real world” leaders are occasionally forced to operate in (think Truman and The Bomb… Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs… Golda Mier and the Munich plotters… etc).

On of BSG’s strengths is its willingness to place flawed (i.e. human) characters in tough situations in which they must make hard, morally ambiguous decisions. Far from being out of character, I think Roslin’s wake-up call to Adama re: Cain is right on the money, and yet another example of a very smart show doing what it does best.

Good catches on the hand holding the gun to Cain in the preview. We catch a glimpse of Gina with a gun attempting suicide in either the preview or a commercial. So, at some point, she does have a gun. Does Baltar get it to her to assist her in killing herself? That's her only wish and he's trying to help? Upon learning that Cain is going to destroy her only chance to be resurrected, wouldn't that motivate Gina to kill Cain? Makes sense to me. Now how would Baltar smuggle a gun into the brig? Of course, he is the Veep, but the political hierarchy hasn't garnered much respect with the Pegasus crew.

That's just it though.
She doesn't want to be resurrected.
That is why she gave them the information about that ship.
If she dies, she gets transferred to a new body. But she will still have all the same memories. The memories of all the torture she has endured.
She wants to die. Period. She wants it to end, completely.
With that ship still out there, it won't end.

snip... she compromises her values in order to serve the greater good. I'm not saying she's "right" to do so, but this is the same woman who played the religion card, engineered a mutiny aboard Galactica, and ordered the destruction of the Olympic Carrier. She's got a survivor's instinct, and is capable of operating in that murky Grey Zone of moral compromise "real world' leaders are occasionally forced to operate in (think Truman and The Bomb... Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs... Golda Mier and the Munich plotters... etc).To do something that compromises (or goes against) your values is acting out of character.

After Roslin's "You've got to kill her" suggestion, Adama made the remarks "What the hell are you talking about?", "I'm not an assassin." and "So the whole world's gone mad." These remarks suggest to me that even Adama was surprised by Roslin's suggestion and took it as out of character. Additionally, later in the episode, Adama even asks Roslin "What's gotten in to you?" You normally don't ask that question unless you've noticed a change in someone's behavior or character. Adama did notice a change ... pointing out to Roslin that she's "become so bloody-minded."

Even the way that RDM describes the scene in the podcast for act I suggests that it's out of character, and a role reversal of sorts for Roslin.

I do agree that Roslin is quite capable of making the "tough decisions", and, as you pointed out, has made them in the past. However, Roslin will usually make that tough decision only after her hand has been forced. In this situation, that hasn't happened ... yet. She still has other legal and more ethical options open to her.

Perhaps it's out of character for her to act in character ... or in character for her to act out of character ... ... :freak: :confused:

Now, where did I put that bottle of Advil??

To do something that compromises (or goes against) your values is acting out of character.

Human beings act "out of character" all the time; it's one of the things that makes life interesting. If you're saying Roslin did something very bold (even for her) I agree. If, on the other hand, you're arguing that the BSG writers crossed the line in terms of believability I respectfully disagree. Is your issue with Roslin the "person" or Roslin the "character?"

Yeah Mactrek, I may have misunderstood your original comment. It sounded to me as if you had a dramatic credibility issue with regard to Roslin's actions. If your point was that the writers are now showing us more of the president's "dark side" (for lack of a better phrase) I totally agree. As others have noted, it's the presence of complex characters like Roslin that make BSG so much fun to watch.

As for Adama's initial surprise re: Roslin's conclusions about Cain (that she's a clear and present danger who must be eliminated) I think it proves Roslin is smarter than Adama. She's done the math and concluded decisive action must be taken before Cain takes out Adama and incites civil war. Compared to some of the life & death calls Roslin's had to make, this one's a no-brainer.

The assassination order is a very interesting twist but perfectly logical. Roslin is acting from a position of weakness. She has command of the entire human population but doesn't really control the military unless she can persuade them to go along with the program. Adama has apparently agreed to submit in order to preserve and promote the civilization they have created.

The noble goals of Roslin have been to save the humans and their civilization and all the good things that encompasses. Cain, it's easy for all to see, will never submit to arrest, trial, nor any of the other tenets of human civilization. If she's threatened, she may, in addition to wreaking havoc, take her ship and run from the fleet in order to save herself and her command. Both Roslin and Adama want that ship and its crew to help preserve the population.

Keeping Cain with the fleet under the current situation risks further conflicts that may result in unacceptable loss of human life and firepower. She is selfish and though she talks of the greater good and survival, she is willing to destroy everything and anybody to get what she wants. Like many military leaders, she's so intent on accomplishing her goals (mission-oriented) that she'll sacrifice (too many of) her troops in doing so. Though some aggressive acts and sacrifice are necessary, the fleet can't afford too many pyrrhic victories if the humans of the 12 Colonies are to survive.

Under such circumstances, assassination (or what may be looked upon as a desperate attempt at execution) is the only way to accomplish both of Roslin's goals.

The irony is that, in order to save civilization, Roslin must order what may be considered an "uncivilized" act. On the other hand, who would not, if allowed to travel back in time, assassinate Hitler shortly after his abominable acts had started?

I do agree that Roslin is quite capable of making the "tough decisions", and, as you pointed out, has made them in the past. However, Roslin will usually make that tough decision only after her hand has been forced. In this situation, that hasn't happened ... yet. She still has other legal and more ethical options open to her.

I think by Roslin's calculation, her hand has been forced: Cain does not return her calls or salute her, which shows a lack of respect for civilian government, Roslin, or both. Roslin also noted that Cain's refusal to provide spare parts to the RDF shows a disdain for civilians. Consequently, Roslin figures Cain will only follow the antebellum military chain of command (Adama's promotion over her by Roslin would not cut it because, as noted, Cain doesn't recognize Roslin's authority). At that point, Roslin knows Cain has no use for or respect of any other legal or ethical options. Taking her out is the only way.

José

The irony is that in order to save civilization, Roslin must order what may be considered an "uncivilized" act.

For the writers of BSG the war with the Cylons has proven a very effective plot device with which to place human beings into conflict with one and other. On the surface the theme would seem to be one of Man vs. Machine, but as big a threat as the Cylons are, the real villains of the new BSG are all too human and closer to home than one might suspect (my German mother-in-law, who was four years old when the Nazis fell, spotted this irony immediately). Fortunately the series' heroes are human too; generally flawed, frequently fearful, occasionally noble, but always human.

And you imagine EVER having such discussions about "Enterprise?" :freak:

My real hope is that this show doesn't burn out. No shark jumping with the Galactica please.

... If you're saying Roslin did something very bold (even for her) I agree. If, on the other hand, you're arguing that the BSG writers crossed the line in terms of believability I respectfully disagree. Is your issue with Roslin the "person" or Roslin the "character?"If your point was that the writers are now showing us more of the president's "dark side" (for lack of a better phrase) I totally agree. As others have noted, it's the presence of complex characters like Roslin that make BSG so much fun to watch.That was precisely my point ... believably out of character ... showing her darker side, etc. The writers have made her very complex, and as such, very interesting.

Although I do think the writers push the envelope from time to time (which is their job) I don't think they crossed the line. They definitely ran right up to it though! ;)

I think by Roslin's calculation, her hand has been forced: Cain does not return her calls or salute her, which shows a lack of respect for civilian government, Roslin, or both. Roslin also noted that Cain's refusal to provide spare parts to the RDF shows a disdain for civilians. Consequently, Roslin figures Cain will only follow the antebellum military chain of command (Adama's promotion over her by Roslin would not cut it because, as noted, Cain doesn't recognize Roslin's authority). At that point, Roslin knows Cain has no use for or respect of any other legal or ethical options. Taking her out is the only way. Failures to return calls, salute or show respect do require some form of disciplinary action ... However, such displays and actions, generally, don't carry a death sentence. Also, Cain has yet to actually disobey one of Roslin's orders ... simply due to the fact that Roslin hasn't given her any direct orders. I do agree that Roslin knows it's an inevitable eventuality that her hand will be forced ... and I think we all know that Cain, if actually confronted by Roslin, will not back down. (Cat fight, anyone? :cool: )

The whole situation has a touch of the "cart before the horse" syndrome in that Cain is being unofficially convicted, and sentenced to death for crimes she has not yet committed against Adama and Galactica's RTF... but no one has chosen to hold her officially accountable for what she did do in the past with Pegasus' civilian fleet (which could possibly also warrant a death sentence).

Maybe Roslin should give Cain the same treatment she gave Adama in the Mini and ask her if she plans to stage a military coup and declare martial law. One thing is for sure ... If she did ask Cain that question, she would have no doubt as to where she stood after the answer.

Failures to return calls, salute or show respect do require some form of disciplinary action ... However, such displays and actions, generally, don't carry a death sentence.

Depends on who your executive is. :) :lol:

But your points are well taken. A lot of (valid) assumptions have been made about Cain that she has not been confronted about directly or forced to be held accountable to in a formal setting. Maybe Roslin and Adama already know what Cain would do with formal charges. But then again, if they went through the process they would have the definitive proof they're looking for.

José

The problem with confronting Cain, is that it might force her hand.
If called to task, she might just open fire on the fleet.
By looking for confirmation, they might loose any options they have available right now.