I guess 4000+mah cells were not a joke

http://www.lrp-electronic.de/d/main_frameset_d.htm

Translated:
After VTEC already put the measuring pole for Sub C High performance running cells SC-3800UP "Fat Boy",
The new VTEC SC-4200UP cell convinces by extremely high voltage levels and a gigantic capacity of 4200mAh! In view of this phenomenal power output was clear, it could only one name give: Big Mama! The cells will be available already soon. Further information for this follows.
http://www.lrp-electronic.de/d/news_flash/uploads/LRP_VTEC_SC-4200UP-Big-Mama.gif

Another nail in the coffin. If these are approved, I quit. I just got new 3800's and they are now obsolete. Looks like the battery of the week is back.

I doubt these are even on the table for cnsideration.. all cells had to be in by a certain past date.. gonna have to wait a year to see these bad boys in use..

you wont have to worry about these....NO Body in the US is going to match them for the US market till late in the year when it comes time to submitt new cells.

These cells are designed for the European market....With the worlds this year the cells have to be released 6 months before the start of them to be legal. So that is why they are being released now.

I dont think this new cell is going to be a factor in the US for a long while.

EA

EA,
Are they using a new battery company? or are these a rebaged IB4200 ?

You know some hobby shop somewhere will start letting you run these and then it will grow and grow.
This stuff is killing this HOBBY. This is the exact reason I am not racing anymore and the reason you will not see many new racers stick around long. Untill the racers band together and say were not going to run anything but 3800 or whatever is decided on for the next 5 years and then we will evaluate the battery issue then this stuff will continue.

If we handled this well and controlled the market on batteries instead of it controlling us, you would see prices come down. Unfortunately that is not what is happening. Right now we are left with two options get out or continue to bend over and take it up the tailpipe.

the cells look nice though!! lol

As long as it's held to once a year I'm alright with the new cells,bring'em on more power!

I find it a little humourous that we have some complaining about all the new cells coming out. Then we have some that are hoping their track goes by ROAR's "one a year approval" process. Then in the next thread those same people blast ROAR for being such a poor orginization.

This wasn't intended to point to any one that has posted here, just a general observation. You want your track to stick to ROAR battery approval rules or motor rules (in some cases) but you don't want to pay ROAR membership fees. Kind of ironic isn't it?

man i tell ya,. new cells are great but time to slow it down a little.

we had the 3300's for awhile,. then 36's,37's,IP's,38's ver 1,2,3,... i heard gp has a new improved 37 coming out ,.now these? lol i really dont care but i feel for the new racer or budget guy.

lets just slow it down a little,. but like everything else its all about the coin!

Eric: Correct me if I am wrong. The European market is IFMAR. If these are approved for IFMAR, ROAR will follow suit. LRP..guess who the US Dist. is? If they want it ROAR will do it. Double whammy on the rest of us.

No actually IFMAR doesnt have much of a base overseas other than the worlds....Most everything there is done like our races...Snowbirds, Vegas, etc...no Santioning bodies....At least I think this is how its done. They have ones for each country like EFRA in the UK and JMRCA in Japan.. Japan doesnt have a battery rule. If its being matched they can run it pretty much. That is why they release cells so often.

All of the above is just what I have heard....Since I cant read their language it makes it hard to follow through on hearsay!! LOL


There will be more posted next week explaining a lot more facts.

EA

95% of the racers run 19 turn or stock who cares about run time? let the guys who run mod deal with the 600 second at 35 amp run time numbers. all i want is voltage.

if your track or hobby shop starts to allow every new cell introduced from now until next december to be legal than i say shame on them! voice your oppinion with your wallets! hank is correct i read 10 threads a week and all of them are bitching about either wanting more new cells...less cells and roar has no right to limit new cells...when all the dust settles in 2006 in the end the racers will decide what cells rock and what cells are paper weights.

tell your local tracks now what you want to see done about all the new cells being introduced. nobody wants to have to buy new packs every month. also don't run out and buy 8 packs of batteries either. the IB cells the IP cells and the GP cells will all be tweaked over the course of 2006....Ip GP and IB has done some tweaking in less than 2 months time....buying alot of packs will not be wise...

If people didnt like change than they would all run a spec class. Whats wrong with batteries getting better, doesnt that make the companies try to make a better product?This kind of thing goes on in all forms of racing.

I guess this won't affect me, I run Nitro Dirt Oval Sprint cars and EDM's!

If people didnt like change than they would all run a spec class. Whats wrong with batteries getting better, doesnt that make the companies try to make a better product?This kind of thing goes on in all forms of racing.

it isnt about progression its the fact we have 6 battery types now.. you buy one and next week your stuff is obsolete.. i loved the 3300's being king for so long.. everyone was in the same boat.. good cells and great prices..

I liked the 3300's but I REALLY like the IB3800's.

If people didnt like change than they would all run a spec class. Whats wrong with batteries getting better, doesnt that make the companies try to make a better product?This kind of thing goes on in all forms of racing.

I disagree.
The successful organizations do not allow things to change several times
in a season...

...this is why we have to have/support a sanction on battery approval.

For my SWTour series, (being I had already been hearing rumors of something similar), I created my '06 rules to allow UPTO 4000 mah Sub "C" NiMh batteries..and this will be locked for 2 seasons.

Unless the 4 minute format is changed for OVAL racing, MOST oval racers will never benefit from the changes we've already made more than a very slight percentage.

Most track records fell with 3300's, but just HOW MUCH have they fallen from the old 2000's?

It dosen't matter...
By the end of the year batteries maybe as high as 4500 's...... :thumbsup:

I created my '06 rules to allow UPTO 4000 mah Sub "C" NiMh batteries..and this will be locked for 2 seasons.

Aren't you afraid that cells under 4000mAh will dry up by the end of 2 years? Remember all the talk in June that by the end of the year there would be no GP3300 cells available so everyone should go out and buy 3800s now! ;)

Hey Hank,

You should have tried to find 3300's Back in Late Sept....Despite what everyone thinks there was ONLY one matcher that had 3300's in stock...and they had been there for a long time and SUCKED...... I know...I had to buy some to do for the Nationals in FL.

EA

And who was that matcher? Bet I could tell you of at least a 1/2 dozen others ;)

Despite what they told you I talked to a lot of them and none of them had 3300s in quanities to sell to other matchers. Only 1 matcher, a sponsor on here, had enough cells to sell back then. Everyone else said they were out of them and not carrying them anymore. I know of 5 other matchers that bought from the same company to get cells for the nationals.

EA

I am literally just getting back in the hobby. I just(they have not yet arrived) 6 IB3800 packs. If I had to immediately turn around and purchase 6 new 4200 packs to be competitive next month, I would be upset.

But, it seems that the way most racers push their batteries pretty hard, after about 1 year <b>maybe</b> 2, they really need some new ones anyway. So, a 1 year rule doesn't seem like it would be too horrible to many people. What I really worry about is having to buy a new charger(cha-ching).

My $.02

We can all kick and scream about the cells we are currently facing but it is only going to continue as well all know. Do I like what we are facing here with the cells? Not at all, because it is hard on everyone. But in case no one has noticed the new quantom 3 esc from lrp has the ability for LIPO's. It will not end unless the sanctioning bodies get together and so enough is enough and then you have to get the local tracks around the country to fall in line as well. That is a big problem at this time. We have rules and yet many local tracks make there own and that is a big source of frustration for drivers. Example: I run a track that has the rule book laying out every week and yet runs us 5 min's in 19 turn. Now I dont mind the 5 min thing but that is just an example of how tracks stray. Another track I race at has it right on their website "any battery is legal". We just have to deal with it, remember it is for fun and try to keep the cost as in moderation as possible I guess. No need getting upset because it wont change as we all know as well.


Rob @ Murdock R/C

But in case no one has noticed the new quantom 3 esc from lrp has the ability for LIPO's.

Not to mention Orion's 4800 mah 7.4v Li-po pack for R/C cars.

http://www.teamorion.com/news/images/orion_platinum_lipo_labeled_s.jpg

But LiPOs aren't the new cells in Li construction. The new stuff is Li Magnesium.

good post erock, I forgot about that one.

I don't really mind the changes.
Think about it, for a big race (nat'l, regional, snowbirds, etc.) you're going to buy new batteries. The batteries are not the expensive part of racing anyway. I bet people spend more on tires, motors, brushes, etc than batteries. Every 6 weeks just buy 2 packs. Its about 14 bucks a week for that. I quit smoking and saved way more than that. If you buy them often, you can beat the crap out of them, and sell them to beginners. It helps them out, and gets you a little bit of $ back. This way everyone gets fairly new batteries.

Bring on the new cells. I'll buy em.

Alrighty dave!,IB recently released their 4200 and that's not the end. http://international.corally.com/newimages/IB4200sticker6cell1.jpg

per Danny from SMC regarding SMC IB4200's:

"Here is the info that some maybe looking for on the IB4200. We were asked by IB not to release any info on the cell until Monday but guess some companies wanted to get the scoop first.

The IB4200 is the same size as the IB3800 and weighs about the same or 1 gram more than the 3800s.

Based on the samples we have gotten the specs will be 430+ , 1.20+ with IR of 1.7-2.0 @ 35 amps.

So for the racers who think that extra capacity is needed they can buy the new 4200s and for those who have no capacity related issues the IB3600 - IB3800s will be fine and will be the cells legal for most big races and ROAR sanctioned events.

We expect our first shipment to be matched up just before Christmas or the week after.

On another note SMCs online shop is now open. We have opened this shop to allow racers to buy our products when they have a tough time finding them locally. We strongly reccomend that you give your local track or shop the chance to sell you our products as they are able to offer them at the same price listed on our site and may have them in stock.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
danny@smc-racing.com (danny@smc-racing.com)"

Another post by Danny:

"The IB3800s are typically 390-420 that is where the majority of the cells fit in. The IB4200 will be 430+ atleast that is what we see with the sample cells we will have more info once we get our first production shipment. The IB3800 never really gained any runtime when it was being upgraded. IB worked hard on the voltage curve and based on what they have acheived I doubt that they will be able to improve by a big margin but then again I would of never thought that we would see 1.20+ cells at 35 amps."

Emailed JB today

4200mah are legal in 19T and Mod for ARCOR events/Tracks.
Stock has a moratorium cap on 3800mah until Jan 2007.

Oh Boy This Is Getting Re Dickulos!!!

I hope most tracks wont let thease run untill next year ?

so much for EA saying nobody in the US is gonna start matching these until mid 2006
haha

so much for EA saying nobody in the US is gonna start matching these until mid 2006
haha

I said no one was going to match them for the US market because this is what I was told....guess they decided different after telling me that. Oh well. I'll stick with what guys can race untill ROAR makes up its mind on what rule they are going to go with this year.....Theyve got their head so far up there butt right now they wont every see daylight again!!

EA

very true EA,

I figured guys just went back on what they told you.
so when are you gonna have them for sale ? hehe

Personally I wont do them except for my foreign distributors IF they want them.....Unless ROAR changes the size. If they do that then they will (or SHOULD) allow battery matchers who submitted legal cells (IB, GP, EPIC) to change the size of their cells and resubmit them for 2006....but we will have to wait and see what ROAR does.

EA

EA
I thought the IB4200 was still 43mm ?
According to Danny its the same size as the IB3800 and up to a gram heavier.

IB released the cell earlier than they said they would because the deadline for submital in Europe is December 31st.

I really don't think this cell will have a huge impact on the US market as they will not be legal at most races and they will definately not be legal for ROAR races.

Sinc the number one feature of this cell is 20-30 extra seconds of runtime then I don't think this will make a huge impact as we already have more than enough capacity with 3600/3800s.

Since the number one feature of this cell is 20-30 extra seconds of runtime then I don't think this will make a huge impact as we already have more than enough capacity with 3600/3800s.

Yeah but Danny, not to argue, but you know as well as I do, typically anytime you have more runtime, that equals a better discharge curve up front.
Even with 3300's I would have much rather had a pack of 340 sec 1.160's rather than a pack of 290, 1.17's

I guess what I am trying to say is even for stock racing if I can stay in the high numbers longer its gonna equal faster times regardless if I come off with 205 seconds of runtime with 3800's or 240 seconds with 4200's.

Until the packs get to the point where are cars are over 40oz with them, more runtime is always gonna equal faster lap times. Now if say a 6000mah pack pushes our cars to say 42oz then the added 2 oz of wight might not be worth it to where a lower capacity cell may still rule.

I mean people can spin it anyway they want, but you know these will creep into the US market when a guy shows up at their local track. then next week everybody will have em, even if they have to order overseas.

I already had like 4 emails and 2 text messages since yesterday afternoon from fellow racers asking me where they can get them at, and I dont even match cells or sell them, lol

We expect the 4200s to be 430-450 but as soon as we get our first production batch we will know for sure what they will be like. It's hard to get a good feel for numbers just from a few sample cells.

In theory your right about the voltage curve but I don't think that .01-.02 extra on the voltage curve makes that much of an impact.

I agree Danny if its only .01-.02 more
I expected more like .05-.07 range, if that was the case I could see these cells having more of an impact

you have a PM

If you take a 390-1.20 IB3800 pack and compare it to a 435-1.190 IB3800 pack I doubt there will be a difference in the voltage curve. The IB4200 will have the same voltage as the IB3800 so yes it maybe a bit better on the voltage curve but I don't think it will be a big difference.

I also want to say that we will offer the 4200s but we feel that the 3800 will be the cell that most tracks and races will allow and it has already proven to be a great performer so those who want the latest and greatest can buy the 4200s but i'm sure the 3800 will stay very competitive.

Just Gotta love those batteries!!!!!!!!!

And the beat goes on.

I can't wait to run my sears die hard. Lol

I agree Danny if its only .01-.02 more
I expected more like .05-.07 range, if that was the case I could see these cells having more of an impact

you have a PM

erock,

I think what you will find out is that the new batteries have a more linear curve. I would say flat but most people will think I mean they have no punch or rip. If you use a CE product use the data cable and you can plot graphs and I think you will see that the voltage through out the discharge curve doesn't drop like it did with the other cells.

I think this is the single greatest improvement as the cells don't drop off when they get more towards 0 voltage then the others do.

As Danny has said about Paulie at Cleveland in touring Modified is the same thing EddieO of Team BrOOd, who have their batteries matched by SMC, said about Mike Dumas TQ and win in 12th modified. Over 30+ seconds of runtime left.

I know you and many others will say that people well dump these in oval and I honestly believe the fast guys won't come close and many guys just don't tune right. After all oval guys love seeing high amp draw motors but that's another story. Plus it's getting to the point that the cars are simply over powered. At Oval Nast this year I used a 9x3 and turned laps just as fast as the fast guys and was faster at the end of the run then most but the R/C gods felt otherwise.

Brian

so much for EA saying nobody in the US is gonna start matching these until mid 2006
haha

Initially, it was our intent to delay introduction of the cell to the US market until spring. We would bring in the cell and only match for our international customers. However, once word of the cell leaked out, we started getting orders from domestic matchers. Being the IB importer, we must look out for their interests and that means selling the cells to whoever wants them. We felt it would be impossible to try to regulate the market. Besides, if we didn't sell the cells someone else would. Our hand was forced. With that said, I feel that 3800's will still be the battery of choice. Given the price and performance of the 3800, I don't see how you can go wrong running these.

I think this is great. All we need to do is wait for the 4200's to hit the US streets, then we can start 3300 classes and all get our batteries reeeeeaaaaallllll cheap :)