Just got the word that ROAR's 6 classes maximum rule combined with ROAR's "only one entry per scale" rule has again kicked 1/12th scale in the teeth for the 2006 Nationals in California.

Yup... ROAR rule...6 classes max at the nats. So we end with 4 touring car classes (stock, 19 turn, Masters and Modified) and two 1/12th classes, instead of 3 + 3.

Add to that, the ridiculous ROAR rule that does not allow you to enter stock and mod in the same scale. So, if you are a 1/12th racer only, you have no choice but to race only one class. Spend your money, take time from work, only to be allowed to run one class. Nice.

In 2005, first ROAR picks a venue that has ZERO experience running large events. Zero experience at big carpet races (management had never been to Cleveland or the Snowbirds or previous Carpet Nationals). We all go to Connecticut only to have one blunder after another.

Hey ROAR, if you can't find a suitable venue for the event, don't run it. Why waste all our money traveling, taking time off, etc only to have a poorly run event because ROAR was so desperate to put the race "somewhere". Fortunately, the Stockton gang has experience and will run a fine event, but tragically it will suffer from the same limited entry issue for 1/12th scale racers.

Hey ROAR, look at your history. 1/12th scale has been a big part of it. The Carpet Nats was formed for 1/12th cars. In the late 80's and early 90's it was for 1/12th cars only, shortly after, F-1 cars also ran, then touring cars. Now with ROAR ridiculous class restrictions choking 1/12th entries to nothing, ROAR itself is turning its back on the scale that helped build it.


Wake up... make it 3 + 3... Stock, 19 and mod for both touring and 1/12th. If you absolutely must dis-allow the stock and mod double class issue, let the people run 19 and mod or 19 and stock. Let the 1/12th only racer come to the race and run more than 1 class.


Frank Calandra

Well said Frank.

Yep, if you're going to run 1/12 only...you should be able to enter as many as you like.

By limiting people to just 1 touring car entry, hopefully those racers will enter 1/12 as a second class and help boost the entries there as well.

I like the 1 class limit in touring car, which will keep the mod guys from running 19 turn. Also will get some of the factory guys out of stock and into 19 turn as well.

But there really isn't a 1 touring car class rule. The rule is no driver can run stock and also modified in the same scale. Another rule says something about Master's not being able to run any other class in the same scale. The 19 turn class is the "wildcard". Enter that and you can run stock, or modified as well.

So, to be fair, the Nats should be stock, 19 and mod allowing both the TC driver and the 1/12th driver to enter 2 classes in the same scale.

OK, when you mentioned "One entry per scale" rule, I took that to mean a driver could only enter one class in Touring Car and just one in 1/12.

gotcha.

changed my mind...

I received an email from Frank and I think we can take this to private emails to solve the problem.

Although, I am not a proponet of ROAR message forums for simply this reason... drama must be played out in writing without respect to those who also do nothing but for the best of ROAR to deal with......

c'mon guys... back off and talk to the ROAR officials personally.

Dawn Sanchez

Hey Frank,

If your interested in supporting something new email me and I'll put you in contact with them. EAMotorsports@bellsouth.net

Thanks
EA

I am happy to report some direct response from ROAR on this issue. At least the communication lines are beginning to open.

I do not really know where this will lead, but I hope this can be corrected in time for the Stockton Nationals.

With all due respect Dawn,

This is our hobby not ROAR's. When you make decisions such as this, you must be prepared to publicly defend your position and explain your thought process. I/We realize that you will never keep everyone happy but ROAR needs a lesson from some of the larger events where the complaining is rare and the fun is the primary goal.

Regards,

Peter Coll

Peter,

Conversly, with all due respect, this is my hobby as well. :)

When decisions are made they are explained regarding ROAR and the races the organization promotes and provides liability sanction. (of course, you will bring up 'brushless' topics of which I cannot argue was a poor decision and poorly made on ROAR's part)

Because they are not explained in any message forum that propagates abuse and provides a source of negativity to an event that would have otherwise gone well, I cannot respect such measures.

I think it best to find another method of communication that suits the needs of all not just one very capable and obviously, strong keyboard author.

ROAR's method has been and will continue to be RevUp and the website. In the past, this has not been a method that is as successful as we would like but measures are being taken to improve these faults. ROAR does learn from lessons in the past and changes do occur.

I do not support ROAR message forums that allow public scrutiny of an issue without factual data nor questioning the integrity of those volunteering their time with a belief of bettering the organization.

(that's about as P.C. as I can put that... :) I have resigned my position with ROAR Executive Committee as of the end of this month mainly due to time constraints but I must admit, a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Communication with those who refuse to communicate logically or with the purpose in mind there are opposing views has been my cross to bear and I give my replacement nothing but respect for stepping up.)

not to say this is a forum that propagates abuse to ROAR nor calling out any one author of any one post....

this was a general statement of my belief of message forums and the harm I have learned they cause.

Dawn: These "forums" do have a good purpose, it's keeps the racers informed before something happens and can't be changed. The website is useless, as a form of communication and once it's in Revup, the decisions have already been made. Kind of like our Congress that always manages to vote in a pay raise at midnight, no one knows it until it done.

No, some of these forums do not have the purpose of transferring information or creating intelligent dialog. That's already been established and proven. You won't see ROAR officials on these sites much because truly, the abuse taken is not worth the time involved. I agree, there needs to be a method of obtaining current and relevant information and ROAR is working on that with the new website.

Trust me on this one. How many threads on different forums have you read with personal attacks on my personal life, my education, my career and yes, even my rear end. Can you tell me there is purpose to that particular forum?

Decisions are not just made and that's the largest piece of misinformation out there.. this lie was created by the invent of message forums and those who use them to satisfy their own need for drama and sense of importance.

if you don't like a decision - then do something about it. ROAR officials can only make decisions based on established rules or recommendations from the class committees.

The nationals in Stockton seem to be an issue. I don't know exactly the problem as I have not seen an entry form for this event. If they are not allowing stock and 19T in any one class for one person to compete, yes, that is wrong. If they are following the rules that no stock and mod in the same chassis for one person to compete, yes, thats per the rules. The rule was established A LONG TIME ago to prevent domination of the entire event by one driver. It was fair then. If its not fair any longer - then make your own proposal to ROAR at the one place all officials do read (their email) and not on the several hundred message forums. Personally, I read three to four of them. There is one I refuse to visit and several I avoid unless somebody asks me to go there.

I apologize if this reads to be defensive and/or critical. Absolutely not the intent. Simply stating my reasons for not believing message forums are the end all of communication in any organization and reiterating my belief in the changes to RevUp and the website.

Dawn,

Thank you for your reply.

Peter Coll

Dawn- that is a excellent answer! I do read the different threads and after taking a step back and just looking at things it's the same few 99% of the time corresponding on the sites. The silent majority just reads it.If you want change you have to vote and to vote you have to be a member.Run for office them your voice is heard even louder. You don't have to agree with everything but you got a voice.Speaking of voice mine will be fading after this year.15-16 years(region director) doing this has finally taken its toll.

Dawn was the one who responded to the problems SCH has had with the lack of ROAR support at two of its Regional events... It is too bad that ROAR is going to loose such a good resource. (You can read more on a letter to ROAR from SCH: http://www.steelcityhobbies.com/2005Files/ROARtrouble.shtml)
This makes current ROAR "supporters" such as myself wonder what is next? With any large event you will have problems... the important thing is that what do you learn from these experiences to make the next event better. In the business world, ROAR could be a "company" to be taken over or bought out. (let alone the opportunity for another sanction body to pick up the ball and run with it)
I hope ROAR learns to sift out the good and factual comments from any email, forums and their own sanctioned tracks to grow stronger and actually do something positive. ROAR has plenty of opportunity to fix things before they happen. I commend Dawn for "trying" to police all the current problems and trying to make some good.

MR :cool:

I am happy to report some direct response from ROAR on this issue. At least the communication lines are beginning to open.
I do not really know where this will lead, but I hope this can be corrected in time for the Stockton Nationals.

thanks Bill and Mike!

Mike - be sure to read the Promotions Director column in the next RevUp! :) I broke a few rules by plugging another favorite of mine...

Nice! LOL
Good luck at your new gig!

thanks Bill and Mike!

Mike - be sure to read the Promotions Director column in the next RevUp! :) I broke a few rules by plugging another favorite of mine...

A few years ago, I joined ROAR and ran a ROAR Region 5 Off Road event along with my son. Track wasn't even built to ROAR specs, no ROAR representation, and the track management was completely lost. I finally won my main and the award was a plaque of 4"/5" with no date or personalization.
My local track gave better plaques for lower mains at their "big" races. This was a trip that cost me a day off work, a 5 hour drive, motel for 3 nights, and related expenses. Not a favorable situation.

I continued my ROAR membership but never received any communication from ROAR. Never received a membership card, no newsletter, nothing.

I no longer maintain a membership and do not race any ROAR events unless a track uses ROAR rules. There is a saying that "If you don't learn from the past, you are doomed to repeat it" I think it applies to ROAR. Listen to your current members whatever the venue of communication. You can't please everyone but you should be able to create some competitive fun racing.

Race classes are selected by the Host track. So that's not Roars fault, talk to the Host track owner.

I hope Roar makes a change to the stock only rule. It should be stock can run 19 turn, but not open mod and open mod can run 19 turn but not stock in the same scale class.

the current rule is you can run stock and 19 or mod and 19..but not stock and mod.. you can however run mod 10th scale and stock 12th.. or vice verse.. this rule was made for the 04 carpet nats at rad ricks.. i feel it was made because attendance was down and roar wanted to string up more entries from the people already there..

In my opinion it should be open classes for everyone.. if one driver wants to take th time to run all three classes then so be it..

A few years ago, I joined ROAR and ran a ROAR Region 5 Off Road event along with my son. Track wasn't even built to ROAR specs, no ROAR representation, and the track management was completely lost. I finally won my main and the award was a plaque of 4"/5" with no date or personalization.
My local track gave better plaques for lower mains at their "big" races. This was a trip that cost me a day off work, a 5 hour drive, motel for 3 nights, and related expenses. Not a favorable situation.

I continued my ROAR membership but never received any communication from ROAR. Never received a membership card, no newsletter, nothing.

I no longer maintain a membership and do not race any ROAR events unless a track uses ROAR rules. There is a saying that "If you don't learn from the past, you are doomed to repeat it" I think it applies to ROAR. Listen to your current members whatever the venue of communication. You can't please everyone but you should be able to create some competitive fun racing.



You see, this is the problem I am speaking about. You ran a regional event at a track who signed up for ROAR most likely for the liability coverage and you were displeased at the management, the track and the awards and you point fingers at ROAR for this problem. Did YOU contact ROAR about your displeasure? Do you understand the host track is responsible for the management of races and the awards? If this was NOT a national event, no, you will not see an Excom member present unless they are racing. If this was a regional event, you most certainly did have an appointed ROAR rep as the DRO. (in the rule book) It might not have been the region director, but the host has to select somebody. Did you attend the driver's meeting where officials were introduced?

If this was not a regional event, simply a club race with series points awards or whatever, that's the tracks decision to state the classes and no amount of funds is required towards awards. (nationals require 15% of the entry fees to be applied to awards) A smart track will make the awards something people want so they will return in the future but ROAR does not take the responsibility of teaching business marketing skills as ROAR is an organization that promotes and provides liability coverage and fair racing to host tracks through a comprehensive rule book that has been written and modified since the late 60's.

Track specs?? Hmm.. lanes were not wide enough? Security barriers were not present? What does that mean? Could you elaborate on that one?

You say you no longer maintain ROAR membership due to one event. This puzzles me as one track and one event would taint your faith in a national organization? You never received contact from ROAR but did you mention to anybody in ROAR that your membership card was lost somewhere in the mailing or that you never received a RevUP?

Of course, this reads with some attitude but clearly, this post simply made my point. I can't stop people who are drawn to point fingers at the organization rather than realize they are MEMBERS of the organization and provide a little effort towards it.

I hope Roar makes a change to the stock only rule. It should be stock can run 19 turn, but not open mod and open mod can run 19 turn but not stock in the same scale class.

it is that way.

here is a question though???how many people do you hear talking good about roar compaired to the ones that have bad stuff to say??i am a current roar member and since i have paid my due's,i have the right to voice my dislike.i just threw my revup away but how much $$$$ has roar made this year???ALOT.and for what?why does roar charge so much $$$ to piss people off?and as to the point of "its up to the track owners to decide"come on its a national championship.the rules should be the same every year and at evey track.pick the same classes and run them every year untile they need tweaked.not something different evey year like it has been.
Also try getting the info as to dates ,tracks ,times,motors out a little earlier to the public.i know for a fact that attendence is falling off for these races by the common man because of all the bs.to me it seems like the people are just telling telling it how it is and the only ones who stick up for roar is the ones that have been in there pocket.i know that i will be boycoting all the roar crap from now on.

here is a question though???how many people do you hear talking good about roar compaired to the ones that have bad stuff to say??i am a current roar member and since i have paid my due's,i have the right to voice my dislike.i just threw my revup away but how much $$$$ has roar made this year???ALOT.and for what?why does roar charge so much $$$ to piss people off?and as to the point of "its up to the track owners to decide"come on its a national championship.the rules should be the same every year and at evey track.pick the same classes and run them every year untile they need tweaked.not something different evey year like it has been.
Also try getting the info as to dates ,tracks ,times,motors out a little earlier to the public.i know for a fact that attendence is falling off for these races by the common man because of all the bs.to me it seems like the people are just telling telling it how it is and the only ones who stick up for roar is the ones that have been in there pocket.i know that i will be boycoting all the roar crap from now on.

Ok, lets discuss this. ROAR is a non profit organization therefore ROAR cannot profit from anything. Your $30.00 annual pays for your liability insurance coverage and additional expenses which are listed in the RevUp twice a year.
http://www.roarracing.com/pdfs/RevUp_Aug_Sept_05.pdf

RevUp costs ROAR over $50K annual which is why RevUp will be going online after this last printed issue. Those funds will be reallocated to paying for a race management team for the national venues.

also, to answer your question... (how many people talk bad....) here's my reply: People love drama. Writing about the bad and causing controversy is always more interesting. Basically, keyboard strength is at a premium with conversations like this. Should somebody choose to stand up for ROAR, they are criticized... much like you just did. :)

but, I do agree about getting information out there quicker... why we don't have a battery approval list updated RIGHT now, I cannot understand. As for other products, they are listed on the website the moment they are approved. (this really only applies to motors) Motors are sent in by the MFG's and they are tested at an outside lab and the results are then evaluated and then approved if they fit the specs. Then, the product is listed on the website.

Batteries, have a once a year approval and that date has come and gone with no news as to new batteries for 2006. Yes, I do find fault in this.
http://www.roarracing.com/approvals/sbattery.php

National venues are selected in October for the following year. It takes time to verify with 10-11 tracks the dates and the event. By the end of November, those dates should be posted. http://www.roarracing.com/nationalraces.php

Changing rules?? Hmm... the rule book is evaluated every October for the changing needs of the hobby. (example: LiPo's will be discussed soon and this is necessary) The rule book is printed in January and each renewal and new membership gets that new book. If you renew just before the new printing, this is why the entire rule book is available for download on the website. Rules don't change mid stream. Tracks request deviations to certain rules and are granted those deviations. Those are one time deals.

I am not stating that NATIONAL venues get to pick and choose the classes or even the rules. Nationals are an entire different discussion and the national guidelines which can be downloaded from the website
http://www.roarracing.com/pdfs/NatsGuide05.pdf
are very clear as to the expectations of that host track. I am stating that if NOT a national, yes, the host has discretion and quite a bit of leeway in running the event. Its up to the track and the racers what kind of event (club race, championshiop or point series) they want to run - within certain guidelines in the rule book.

You say something about sticking up for ROAR cuz being in their pocket? I don't understand that comment. Do you think ROAR officials are paid anything?

Continuing this discussion only seems to be angering folks out there and this is exactly what I hate about message forums. Truly, I believe the perception of what ROAR is and what ROAR is in people's mind are two different things. ROAR promotes and provides sanctioning to host tracks and a rule book to follow. Host tracks have the responsibility of following those rules and ensuring repeat attendance by those racers.

"I am reimbursed my travel fees by ROAR but not my time away from my business or income lost because I attend a race to enforce the rules."...please,come on thats not being paid?we all do this for fun but we dont get "paid" for our travlieng or time off work.

one last thing and i am done.roar needs to quit pushing the blame off onto the host tracks.roar is susposed to be the professional organision here.if a track is holding a roar event then roar should dictate all the rules for that event not being wishie washie and saying its the host tracks choice of rules.i live in the region 5 area also and i know alot of the tracks go by our own set in stone rules that apply to all of our tracks and are inforced every week with no problems.and by the way when was the last time roar did an oval event in indiana?

" Basically, keyboard strength is at a premium with conversations like this. Should somebody choose to stand up for ROAR, they are criticized... much like you just did."
its called balls!as you put it...i am part of roar and my $$$ went roar so i can say anything about it i want!

"Ok, lets discuss this. ROAR is a non profit organization therefore ROAR cannot profit from anything. Your $30.00 annual pays for your liability insurance coverage and additional expenses which are listed in the RevUp twice a year. RevUp costs ROAR over $50K annual which is why RevUp will be going online after this last printed issue. Those funds will be reallocated to paying for a race management team for the national venues."
you only had 2 people at last years nats.and 50K for revup dosent make me feel anybetter about it.

Reallocation of RevUp funds:

This means the money that WAS spent on RevUp will now be spent on a race management team for the future.

If I may this again is the is the usual response by the few and read my many.You did get your revup - see the person you gave the money to.Did you think they mailed it in? Some times they don't. Can a normal person actually read your writting on the form. did you contact Fred Hohwart to see if your form was recieved?The answer is 99% of the time it's no just come out here and blame ROAR.I've been the region director down here going on my 16th year and I'm in nobodys pocket.
This is my last year doing this.I've gotten into a new hobby and guess what they have the same problem ANY other organization has! Everyone likes to complain on the internet.
Just as an example at the last on-road Nationals in Florida- my favorite ROAR excuses:
I signed up but never recieved my revup 6 months ago- I called up and it was over a year ago. His writting was unreadable.The only reason I even called was he had a tee-shirt that said he was driving for my team.
I signed up over $1500.00 memberships and guess what they were all send in on tuesday.Everyone was given a reciept with the date on it.For our state series races I sign up everyone and do the same thing. Everyone is told the same thing if you don't recieve anything for ROAR in TWO WEEKS call me. I've never gotten a call!
One last thing if your not having fun with this HOBBY get a new one.this is a Hobby and 99.99% of the people participating are out for fun. Taking time off work- big deal you want to race you do it - you don't- don't go.Is anyone forcing you to go? If you want information about the race before you go call the host track-it's there race.

...please,come on thats not being paid?we all do this for fun but we dont get "paid" for our travlieng or time off work.

So, let me get this straight..... I worked for $2.08 an hour by being an official at a national event? (four days attendance while being reimbursed $200.00 for airfare) And, because an event is something a participant chooses to attend for vacation or relaxation, I should feel guilty for getting back my airfare but not meals, lodging or income lost while not at work?

Makes zero sense there and I can't believe you actually believe that.

one last thing and i am done.roar needs to quit pushing the blame off onto the host tracks.roar is susposed to be the professional organision here.if a track is holding a roar event then roar should dictate all the rules for that event not being wishie washie and saying its the host tracks choice of rules.

Wow, who ever said the host track gets to pick and choose rules? You sure do read a lot into something that is an attempt to explain things. Blaming host track? HUH??


its called balls!as you put it...i am part of roar and my $$$ went roar so i can say anything about it i want!

Yep. And I'm a paid up member too and I have the right to stand up for my beliefs and not be accused of being in anybody's pocket.

you only had 2 people at last years nats.and 50K for revup dosent make me feel anybetter about it.

I totally do not get this statement.

First ROAR was the first ever GOOD thing that happened to Oval back in the day, at still to this day everyone holds everthing to ROAR standereds, When another orginaization only pulls 60 cars it was a good event but when roar pulls 60-70 or even more, wow did they drop the ball, that gets old hearing that after awhile, If only we as racers could help out as much as it looks like we like to complaine maybe we could do something construtive. Oval dosn't get the advertisment it needs to grow, for some dumb reason i always hear people blame this on ROAR, i just don't get that, ROAR is in a hard spot, first if they wanted to charge more to cover promating a race, it would cost to much now they dont charge enough and it is there fault they dont promote a race WOW sounds like they just can't win. and yet they still stick around sounds like they are here for us not themselfs, and about all the crap about them getting paid.... WHO CARES what they get paid back for. Why is that such a big deal......I know this thread is way off of it's original topic and i am sorry for that , but i had to get this out.....

ADRIAN CHANDLER

The nationals in Stockton seem to be an issue. I don't know exactly the problem as I have not seen an entry form for this event. If they are not allowing stock and 19T in any one class for one person to compete, yes, that is wrong. If they are following the rules that no stock and mod in the same chassis for one person to compete, yes, thats per the rules. The rule was established A LONG TIME ago to prevent domination of the entire event by one driver. It was fair then. If its not fair any longer - then make your own proposal to ROAR at the one place all officials do read (their email) and not on the several hundred message forums. Personally, I read three to four of them. There is one I refuse to visit and several I avoid unless somebody asks me to go there.

They are not offering 1/12th 19 turn, only 1/12th stock and 1/12th mod. Per ROAR rule 12.2.2;

"At any single Level 4 event, a driver may not enter the stock class and another class for the same vehicle type."

With only stock and mod offered, there is NO WAY for a racer to enter two 1/12th classes. That rule was put in back when ROAR spilt the Offroad Nationals into 2 different races. In doing that, the big teams could now send their hot dog offroad racers to compete at 2 different races, the rule was in stated so that big time factory offroad racers had to pick a race and attend only one. While I do agree with the essence of the rule, the rule becomes a major problem when there is no way to run a second class.


Race classes are selected by the Host track. So that's not Roars fault, talk to the Host track owner.

Not true, per ROAR Nationals Rules;
Rule 29.1. Required Classes are:

* 1/12th scale 4 cell Modified,
* 1/10th scale Modified Touring Car
* 1/10th scale Stock Touring Car

The host club is forced to run these 3 classes. ROAR needs to enforce the same classes for every Carpet National. Stock + 19 turn + Modified classes at the Nats. The host club should be forced to offer those 3 classes in the 2 different scales. Then, ROAR could then enforce the "no stock and mod" rule and a racer could still enter 2 1/12th casses or 2 Touring car classes.

And what right does the host club have to pick the classes at our ROAR Nationals? Sometimes ROAR picks host tracks that know nothing about the history and background of ROAR or the ROAR Nationals. The host track should not have say in these class issues. They should not have say in major rules and race structure. Maybe a provision for an odorless traction, a schedule deviation... something smaller... but not the classes. Say if the host club had some locals that raced offroad cars on the carpet, you going to let them run that class as well, I can see it now...
The 2006 Buggy Road Course Carpet National Class...

I think ROAR should quit passing the buck on the host club. Get involved... by adding a 1/12th 19 turn class to the Stockton program in 2006.

Or, be fair...make a rule that you can only run 1 class per scale. This way the TC guys would NOT be able to enter 2 classes in the same class. To race 2 classes, the TC guys would have to sign up in 1/12th and the same for the 1/12th guys, to run 2 classes, they would have to run TC car. In the end, both classes would be better attended instead of just the touring car class.


Frank Calandra

Frank,

Ok, here's the thing.... if you check the motor approval list ....

the first 19T motor made it on the list this past September. The National Guidelines have not been updated to include this class as of yet.

The only way to get this done is to contact the Excomm about including 19T in the electric classes required in the National Guidelines, which no need, its in discussion to include the class as required or not. You might want to discuss this with David Lee, Competition Director, as that's the most efficient route other than a message forum that it would appear I'm the only one following at the moment. :)

and this comment..... "I think ROAR should quit passing the buck on the host club. Get involved... by adding a 1/12th 19 turn class to the Stockton program in 2006."

I don't believe anybody in ROAR is dumping this on the host track. There WAS no 19T motor approved.. therefore, no 19T class was ROAR sanctioned.

First ROAR was the first ever GOOD thing that happened to Oval back in the day, at still to this day everyone holds everthing to ROAR standereds, When another orginaization only pulls 60 cars it was a good event but when roar pulls 60-70 or even more, wow did they drop the ball, that gets old hearing that after awhile, If only we as racers could help out as much as it looks like we like to complaine maybe we could do something construtive. Oval dosn't get the advertisment it needs to grow, for some dumb reason i always hear people blame this on ROAR, i just don't get that, ROAR is in a hard spot, first if they wanted to charge more to cover promating a race, it would cost to much now they dont charge enough and it is there fault they dont promote a race WOW sounds like they just can't win. and yet they still stick around sounds like they are here for us not themselfs, and about all the crap about them getting paid.... WHO CARES what they get paid back for. Why is that such a big deal......I know this thread is way off of it's original topic and i am sorry for that , but i had to get this out.....

ADRIAN CHANDLER


Adrian,

I am not sure if you get out much but "everyone" is a far stretch. Check the Snowbirds.....you know the largest event of it's kind......not 60 or 100 or 200 but over 800 entries. They do not use the roar rules. Weight 39 oz, epoxy balanced stock motors, no roof height requirement, etc.

I understand your point that roar has been the defacto standard by which all other rules are judged. For example...."Wow, at the 'birds we can run 39 oz. instead of 40oz. (referring to the roar standard). Yes roar is in a tough spot and in the end common sense will prevail.

Peter Coll

Snowbirds... thats a six day, 24 hour a day event.... correct? And this is even thought to be compared to a three day ROAR event? C'mon guys..... 800 entrys is easy when you have that much time...

LOL

I see that Speedworld (Paved Nats) is working inconjuction with Stockton (Carpet Nats)... The entry form is identical....Two 1/12th classes and 4 Touring classes.

Just great...

Now 1/12th scale only racers get screwed at both NATS.

Awesome.

I see that Speedworld (Paved Nats) is working inconjuction with Stockton (Carpet Nats)... The entry form is identical....Two 1/12th classes and 4 Touring classes.

Just great...

Now 1/12th scale only racers get screwed at both NATS.

Awesome.

Frank, please... with all due respect.... please consider the remote possibility that somebody is already on top of some mistakes that have been made and refrain from using a message forum for your platform? You are not the only person with a passion to do what is right for ROAR national venues.

Again... did you read my above post?? 19T has not been a ROAR sanctioned class in the past due to NO 19T motors being approved (oval excepting). The national guidelines do not reflect the 19T as a required class... because, yet again I will state... it has never been a class to require.

Also, did you complain about this very thing for the past several years or is it just this year where the ROAR bashing seems to be high on the entertainment scale do you pick and choose this arguement??

Stop. Please? All you are doing is drawing negative attention to a track and event that is being planned to satisfy your need to draw attention to a matter that already has the attention drawn to it.

Let it go.
Dawn

Adrian,

I am not sure if you get out much but "everyone" is a far stretch. Check the Snowbirds.....you know the largest event of it's kind......not 60 or 100 or 200 but over 800 entries. They do not use the roar rules. Weight 39 oz, epoxy balanced stock motors, no roof height requirement, etc.

I understand your point that roar has been the defacto standard by which all other rules are judged. For example...."Wow, at the 'birds we can run 39 oz. instead of 40oz. (referring to the roar standard). Yes roar is in a tough spot and in the end common sense will prevail.

Peter Coll



So please tell me when the "SNOWBIRDS" Became an orginzation??? you might want to stay in a little more and learn how to READ

I have gotten word from ROAR that they will allow us to add a seventh class to the paved and carpet onroad Electric nationals, as such I am in the process of updating the fliers and adding 12th scale 19T as a class to both, and updating the www.2006RoarNats.com website (this website will have the latest info regarding both sets of nationals as well as links to the live scoring/audio/etc.. we will be having at the event). I have verified that there is a rule deviation for both TC and 12th allowing for stock&19T or mod&19T in both TC and 12th. I am also hoping I can get the change into RC Car Action for the carpet nats, my deadline for submitting the carpet flier to them (for the issue that hits the stands in January) was last Monday 12/05 ...hopefully that was a "soft deadline".

To everyone that has had comment on this board on the subject of 12th scale 19 turn and the no mod if you run stock issue. I would like to set the record strait as the owner and director of Stockton RC Raceway.



For those that have not read the ROAR rules or Nationals Guidelines the issue of being able to run stock and mod or 19 turn is this. Rule 12.2.2 of the '05 ROAR Rule book reads "At any single level 4 event, a driver may not enter the stock class and another class for the same vehicle type". This means if you run stock you can't run 19 turn or mod. We had to get a rules deviation approved by the ROAR Executive Committee to allow the racers to run stock and 19 turn. When we applied we also applied for another deviation to allow us to run a seventh class “12th scale 19 turn" so that the 12th scale racers could run more than one class and they would not approve this. Believe me when I say that I was thinking about the 12th scale racers as I am a 12th only driver as well, but we as a host venue can only do what ROAR allows us to do. Also based on the high number of over 40 TC drivers we have in Nor Cal we felt that the TC Masters class would be better attended. In 2002 when we hosted the carpet nationals we had -20 entries in 12th Masters thus the decision we made about TC Masters over 12th 19-Turn.



I would like to personally and sincerely thank Frank Calandra and anyone else that has taken this up with ROAR. I just received an email from David Lee Director of the ROAR Ex Com stating that the EX Com has reconsidered our proposed deviation and we will now be allowed a 7th class, 12th Scale 19 turn. We will be updating our flyer and on-line signups to reflect this today. Now that ROAR has listened to the 12th scale racers lets make sure that we have a good showing in 12th 19 turn. All current info on classes, track, hotel, and sign ups can be found on our nationals website at www.2006roarnats.com (http://www.2006roarnats.com/)

Fliers, class info and onilne registrations have all been updated to reflect the new 19T 12th scale both for carpet and paved electric nats, go to www.2006RoarNats.com for the latest.