Ive read all about how to take care of these batteries. I want to know how many people run them more than once in one race day, and did you notice any difference? More/less run time/voltage. Just looking for input. Thanks!!!

I've been using mine twice a day and haven't noticed any drop in performance from 1st to the 2nd run. Danny at SMC has been saying for a couple of years to only buy 2 or 3 packs at a time and use them as much as you want. That way when the next batch, especially with the IB 3800, you won't have to buy so many more pack to stay up to date. Its only been about 2 months since these cells went from 1.185 to 1.20. The bad thing is that the price has stayed the same for top notch cells but the #s keep going up.

Ive read all about how to take care of these batteries. I want to know how many people run them more than once in one race day, and did you notice any difference? More/less run time/voltage. Just looking for input. Thanks!!!

As long as you let them cool completely down before recharging them.

well i only have 2 packs so i have to dbl up on them and even when you let them cool you notice less rip the second time.ive went to gun on a heads up start and it just wasnt there

That is strange because I just had a call today from a racer who runs mod oval and he tells me the second time of the day they are just as fast.

The last 3 shipments of IBs that we have gotten have been real stable. IB will not change the cell for awhile unless other companies can catch up then they will step it up another notch.

dude i was there with 3 other guys they all hade the same problem except for the guy with 4 packs

After month's of working with the 3800's ,this battery is the biggest change to hit the RC industry in many years.
Bottom line --Their GREAT !!!!!!!!! ----but have to be treated differently than other cells and you have to tune your motors differently.
-make sure and buy the latest "fifth gen " cells , first were very poor
-keep cells 70-80 degrees ambient temp before charging
-Never bring cells to 0.0 !!! use diode equalizing tray "tekin battery doctor"
-charge to cell temps around 135-140 degrees
-check your av. discharge voltage at 300 sec. --forget this crap about your GFX 's av voltage number ! dead shorting ? of course you voltage went up as you took 100 seconds off the run-time.
-run once a week , dis to .90 at 30-35 amps and let sit till next race , equalize on diode tray to .75-.77 per cell for 20-30 min and remove , NEVER LEAVE IN TRAY OVERNIGHT !
Most ? good cells voltage will still increase with this procedure , our race packs labels are 1.19+ at 30a , but after 5-6 race cycles , they test out at an av. dis voltage of 1.20+ at 35a and have an av. dis voltage to 300 sec of 1.230 !! INCREDIBLE , thats why you have to tune or detune your high amperage race motors or you'll cook them.
Never " cycle " your packs ! all your doing is using them up , race them and have fun , at the end of a season check and see how they compare to the biggining numbers .

Any further questions

ncfrc@kingcon.com

The biggest mistake I see is that a racer wants to "TRY " a new 3800 pack but doesn't treat it any differently than his 3700's and doesn't give it a fair shot .
-- you either have to race 3700's or 3800's , dont mix and match
--practice with what your going to race , don't use an old 3300 to practice with and then race with a current 3800 , there is that much differrence
--I'm on a race budget like most everyone else , but sell off your old stuff so you can get 4 new race packs, I even sell my old race bodies , racers love a deal!

I have gotten away from my diode trays for the time being, and have been using the Integy 0-30. Yes the tray pulls the calls down close to zero, but only for 30 secs or so. In my experience with IB packs the time it takes to hit the cutoff point in a diode tray, a good hour minimum to do it right if you verify with a meter, is damaging to the runtime of the pack. It seemed that every equalizing cycle killed runtime gradually. In my opinion its now how low you bring the voltage down, but how long the tray keeps a draw on the pack. My early deadshorted packs have all lost @100 secs of runtime, but average voltage is still good in relation to the shorter runtime. They are now all @ 4.77 / 310 secs equal to the best GP 3300's and a decent gp 3700 after deadshorting, still very useable on shorter flat track. My newer code IB 3800's have @ 8 cycles each now, and show very little loss of runtime and less fade on the track when using the 0-30. I do however like the concept of the diode tray and think it does the job of equalizing the cells better than the 0-30, but hurts runtime too much to go back to them. I may experiment with putting one IB pack on the diode tray once every 5 cycles or so to to thorougly equalize the cells and check the effects on runtime. These are just my observations after trying the two tray methods on on two groups of 3 IB 3800 packs.

Has anyone tried zapping IB packs??

I have heard if you dead short the IB cells they turn into paper weight!

Correction on my above post. 310 secs is @100 secs shy of a good 3300 or 3700 pack, so to answer your question deadshorting turns IB 3800's into pack that run well for a couple of minutes on the track or for practice, in otherwords paperweights.
I did a little tinkering on the bench with some IB 3800,s the 0-30 tray, and a digital voltmeter. The 0-30 brings all the cells down rapidly at 30 amp rate. It does NOT bring each cell down individually as I thought when I bought the tray, it is still a series setup like the older tray. What this means is that when you buy a new IB pack and discharge it for the first time, they had better be equalized pretty good or you will be overcharging cells on every subsequent charge after that. If you go by the lights on the 0-30 it gets them CLOSE but not close enough IMHO, especially when dealing with a .02 delta peak as a pack. If you leave the cells on the 0-30 for 5 minutes or so they will all eventually settle in at .02 per CELL, too much time on the tray for my liking, and too low a voltage. The Ideal tray in my opinion would have a 30 amp discharge rate AND diode cutoff, so you could get the cells off the tray and know your cells are equalized properly every time. I'm going to check out the Tekin tray for these features and buy one if it fits the bill, if not i am going to make on myself.

dead shorting does trun them to papper weights i have seen it first hand. 3800 and dead shorting do not mix don't even try

The 0-30 does not bring the cells down individually? Are you sure?

Yes, I started measuring the voltage of one cell as the pack was discharging on the tray, then moved one probe over to see if the voltage reading would double when measuring 2 cells and it did. Now that i am thinking about it i measured from the battery bars, not the connectors on the tray. I'll re-test and post the results....back soon.

I Really Think Your 0-30 Tray Does Discharge Individually.
But I Agree You Have To Be Very Carefull How Long In Tray

I Built My Own Diode Trays From Radio Shack Parts , But By The Time You Buy The Resistors , Diodes , Exp. Box And Wire , Ect, The Tekin Tray Which Does 2 Batteries At A Time "4 Cell" Is A Pretty Good Deal For $49.00 .
If You Discharge Your Pack Down To .90 At 30 Amps , Then 10 Amps ,and Then 5 Amps , You Can Diode Tray Equalize In About 15-20 Min To Aprox. .75-.77 Per Cell.
What I've Read And Experienced Is If You Run A 3800 To 0.0 You'll Basically Kill It.
Also If You Leave It In Any Diode Tray Overnight You'll Experience The Same Thing, Too Long A Voltage Depression.
Last Thing , The Biggest Neg Of A 0-30 Is Too Fast To 0.0 , Even For A 3700 Cell , Slower Is Better ! , That Tray Was Marketed For Time Savings Only! Why Do Think Integy Still Makes Some Darn Good 6 Amp 0.0 Trays.
Remember , Your Going To Loose Run Time On Any Cell Everytime You Cycle It , Worse With A Nimh Than An Old Nicad , A Nicad Cell Has Twice The Durability.
Equalization Is Basically W A Y O V E R T H O U G H T , All Your Trying To Do Is Keep Your Pack Matched , Just Race And Have Fun!!

I use the zero30 until the lights go out.
I wonder if I should use the Smart Tray instead ?

erock1331. I use my Smart tray. and am having good luck, no batt problems.

I have a smart tray also,wonder if this is better than the 0-30? what are the stats on the smart tray? and how would we use it? for the new 3800's.

I use the zero30 until the lights go out.
I wonder if I should use the Smart Tray instead ?

0-30 is fine ... it does discharge the cells individually.

The problem with the smart tray is that if you're going to use it only before charge, it takes forever to discharge the cells.

I've tested with the smart tray after the discharge (so it wouldn't take 10min+ before charge) and then just before charge and the packs were still better with the 0-30 just before charging.

Steve.
tqcells.com

I was thinking that with the 0-30 you would also be training the cells to discharge at a more race level discharge instead of a slow trickle type discharge?

A question for Steve at TQ ,
how long are you leaving your 3800's in the 0-30 tray ???
have you checked the rebound voltage after traying??


A comment for Pepe , yes training a cell is a viable thought but only to .90 or 1.0 per cell is it a factor.
A tray really doesn't train , its only voltage depression TIME that we're talking about here.
After your race discharge your packs to .90 at either 30 or 35 amps , to train and check your run time .
NEVER change your charge amperage for the life of the pack, thats the other training side.
You can equalize your cells within 24 hours of racing and still be fine , it doesn't have to be done five minutes before charging !!
We're not all racing for a National Title here and thats more than close enough.

guys the best thing ive found for ibs is the new tekin tray .AFTER a run i dischage to 3.60 at 35 then put it in the tray it holds them to .7 per cell when its cool i take it out then run it next week EVERY pack i have done this way runs at least 370 run time 4.84 volts and 7.8 air ! this is 35 amps :thumbsup: try it!

Novak really needs to redesign the Smart Tray as it could be the best out there But I've heard their too stubborn to listen to racer feedback.

-YOU HAVE TO HIT THE START BUTTON 6-8 TIMES FOR CLOSE EQUALIZATION AS THE CELLS REBOUND AS SOON AS THEY HIT THE
VOLTAGE CUTOFF !!!!! POOR

-THEY COULD VERY EASILY BUILD IN A VARIABLE AMP SWITCH , MAYBE 5-30 AMP RANGE ?

- IT HAS THE ADJUSTIBILITY TO CUTOFF AT ANY PRESET YOU WANT , BUT IT FALLS SHORT OF A GOOD UNIT BECAUSE OF TOO MANY FLAWS.

- LETS JUST SELL SOMETHING THEORY VS. LETS MAKE THE BEST

-WAY OVER PRICED FOR WHAT YOU GET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-I'M NOT THE FIRST ONE TO TELL THEM THIS , THEIR LOSS

T E K I N , T E K I N ,

The Way To Fly !!!!

Jim Campbell , The New Owner Of Tekin Asked Racers And Battery Matchers What They Wanted And Came Up With The Battery Doctor.

He's Even Coming Out With A Broader Line Of Battery Maintainance Products Because They Have Had Such A Huge Demand

Diode Traying Is Still The Safest For The Life Of Your Cells , A 0-30 May Work But Use With Caution!!!!

As far as the Tekin Tray goes, does it take the cells down to .7 or .5. I have heard both #s mentioned. Which one is it?

.7 Dude

Every article I've seen for the Tekin says 2 amps down to .5. Look at the Tekin website and also in hobbyshopper

.7 IS WHERE the lights would go out .5 is the max at abought 24 hrs later just talked to the owner thanks

Thanks for clarifying! so which is best fast discharging or slow?

THERES NOTHING Wrong with taking the pack out of car discharging it at 35 the pop it in the battery doctor when the lights go out and its cool i take it out and throw it in the box till next week .

A question for Steve at TQ ,
how long are you leaving your 3800's in the 0-30 tray ???
have you checked the rebound voltage after traying??

Until the lights go out, it takes only a few seconds (like 5-10 seconds).

The higher the amp draw the higher the rebound voltage, the lower the amp draw the lower the rebound voltage.

If the voltage isn't "rebounding" above 1 volt per cell after equalizing or traying (above 1 volt in about 1-2 seconds) you'll take runtime away (permanent)

Steve.
tqcells.com

Time is the biggest lesson to be learned in this thread.
The longer you leave a 3800 in a tray the more you'll loose runtime.
Even if you hold a 3800 at .50 volt "tekin over night" you'll loose huge
runtime.
As you read Steve hits his 3800's with a 0-30 for 10 seconds to 0.0 and I'm sure he's ok with that , but don't hold them there much longer or you'll get
the same affect as dead-shorting---a paper weight.

I leave my 3800's in a diode tray to .75-.77 for 15-20 min and am very happy with the numbers.

REMEMBER THIS THOUGH , A NEW MODERN 3800 CELL DISCHARGES MUCH LIKE THE OLD 1200 NICADS, FULL BORE, SO GEARING AND MOTOR AMP DRAW ARE MUCH MORE CRITICAL THAN WITH 3300 OR 3700'S !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just leave whatever voltage is left after a run/race than put it into the 030 just before a charge.Will this have anyadvantages/ disadvantages?

Time is the biggest lesson to be learned in this thread.
The longer you leave a 3800 in a tray the more you'll loose runtime.
Even if you hold a 3800 at .50 volt "tekin over night" you'll loose huge
runtime.
As you read Steve hits his 3800's with a 0-30 for 10 seconds to 0.0 and I'm sure he's ok with that , but don't hold them there much longer or you'll get
the same affect as dead-shorting---a paper weight.

I leave my 3800's in a diode tray to .75-.77 for 15-20 min and am very happy with the numbers.

REMEMBER THIS THOUGH , A NEW MODERN 3800 CELL DISCHARGES MUCH LIKE THE OLD 1200 NICADS, FULL BORE, SO GEARING AND MOTOR AMP DRAW ARE MUCH MORE CRITICAL THAN WITH 3300 OR 3700'S !!!!!!!!!!!!!





i disagree you will not loose huge runtime in the tekin the only time you will loose runtime is at 0 volts or dead short my tq s go 370 to 379 3.84 3.85 7.8 air after sitting in a tray for days

As you read Steve hits his 3800's with a 0-30 for 10 seconds to 0.0 and I'm sure he's ok with that

No no ... I take the pack out of the tray just after the lights go out and it takes 5-10 seconds ... the lights go out when cells get around .6 volt

Steve.
tqcells.com

I use the same method as Steve and I am seeing 414-418 runtime on my Mod packs.

Sorry , I didn't realize at what point the lights go out on a 0-30 tray , so you do agree to not bring 3800's to 0 volts.
I've seen lower runtime with depressing voltage "even to .50 or .70 " for too long a time , not sure why but at least thats my results with nimh cells in general.

I'VE BEEN IN THIS SPORT FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS AND THIS SAME STORY WAS GOING ON BACK THEN , ASK 10 DIFF. RACERS HOW TO DISCHARGE OR MAINTAIN THEIR CELLS AND YOU GET 10 DIFF. ANSWERS.
JUST DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Has anyone tried the Zero V discharging tray:


NOT THE SAME AS INTEGY UNIT.
6 bulbs ensure proper connection.
New layer system for small pit area (can be connected by body clips).
Can be multi-stacked.
R/C car-concept-designed.
Tested by world champion Surikarn Chaidajsuriya.

Zero-V is an individual discharger for conditioning of GP and newer batches of Intellect batteries.

The management method for enhancing voltage with Zero-V
1.Discharge three days on Zero-V tray.
2.Disconnect then leave the battery till next race.
3.Discharge again 1 hour before charge.(Bulbs will not turn on. however, discharging is proceeding)
4.Disconnect then charge.

This will make 2~10% higher voltage for GP and newer batches of IB batteries.
And also effective for rejuvinating older batteries.



I was told that the Zero V tray takes the cell down to .4 volts before charging.

Hmm i wonder how much runtime you would lose though with that ?

Still have not found a way to verify that the 0-30 does each cell individually.
I believe it may, but I'd just like to see it for myself.
Can the cells even really be discharged individually if the bars are in series?

Like Steve said above, the light go out at approx .60 volts per cell so as long as the light go out around the same time and we are using .02 cutoff as a pack we shouldnt be able to overcharge an individual cell to badly.

In addition, we apply voltage (charge) to the pack within seconds of discharging which probably prevents damage as well.

All this thinking came about after talking with a matcher friend of mine who said that when he tried re-matching these new breed of cells, there was a wide spread of runtimes in the individual cells after only a few runs. We all just assume that the cells stay at their sticker runtime for the life of the cell.
I'm going to start researching a 30 amp discharge tray that uses a diode cutoff at .60 per cell, that would be the best of both worlds in my opinion. I'm very rusty on my electronics I may hit the old books some time soon, there must be some inherent electronics law preventing this configuration or someone would have done it by now. Any EE's out there care to chime in?
It will also be interesting 3 months from now to see how everyone's packs are holding up with thier respective trays. After reviewing the different trays' specs I am sticking with the 0-30, but diodes would make it perfect.

There maybe other ways that work well to maintain IB packs but so far the method of discharging them down to .90 v at 30/35 amps after your run and then placing them on a 0-30 tray for one minute prior to charging has been yielding great results.

I built a few new packs last week and cycled them everyday for 3 days to see what the numbers would do. Before assembly I trayed each cell individually on the 0-30 as our cells are shipped with some charge put back into them. By doing each cell on the 0-30 until the lights go out this insures that the cells will all start from the same point.

Pack specs: 414-7.17-11.8

Room temp: Around 70 degree.

1st: 411-7.15-7.17-12.4
2nd: 414-7.15-7.18-12.4
3rd: 414-7.16-7.19-12.6 I believe the cell temp was bit cooler that day as I cycled the pack earlier in the day. This is why the IR went up .2 in my opinion.

As you can see the method of traying them on a 0-30 for 1 minute prior to charging works real well.

I Think This Thread Has Turned Into A Marketing Column Vs. A Useful Piece Of Advise "rpm" .

I Don't Own Any Brand Of Dis. Tray And Have Built All Mine , Both Diode Type And 0.0 Style.,so My Comments Are Strictly From Experience.

Basically Danny Is Telling You The Main Battery Secret , Equalize For The Shortest Time Possible , Any Tray That Says Days Is Definitely Going To Hurt Your Cells!!!!!

Use The Advise That Your Battery Supplier Tells You And Don't Buy From Joes Back Yard Battery Matching Co.

You guys really are scarying me... :) this is deffintely getting to be like the old days when you could ask 10 racers how to treat batteries, and you'd get 10 differnt answers...

I can accept that you shoulnd't hold thes new IB3800s to sub 1 volt for any length of time, but I'm really much of the rest of this to sound alot like vodoo.

get a tekin tray see for yourself !

I don't see where the tekin tray will do any different than Novak Smart tray. other than smart tray you can adjust from from 09 to 01 as well as dead short.Its draw back for dead shorting you need to pack a lunch.

I will throw in another idea. I race the pack. Take it down to 3.6 on the T-30. Then stick it on the Trinity Dyna Pulse (which normally takes 1 hour) store them that way. Thow the batts on a novak tray down to .7 and then charge.

What is the discharge rate of the Novak tray??? It seems that none of the diode trays use a high discharge rate.
I have decided to equalize my packs once every 2 or 3 weeks using the T-35 each cell individually to the .06 cutoff. Only takes a few minutes and will give a good indication of the state of match left in the pack, and how the tray is working.

Smart tray,flatline both discharge at 2.7 amps..

WERE TALKING IBS HERE YOU DONT WANT TO DEAD SHORT THE NEW CELLS the tekin takes right to a good point and holds it till its equal plus its much cheaper and better looking than the slovak!

Just buy the TEKIN and use it , any nimh cell will perform better
using this unit, don't ask 9 more racers.
Any body who dead shorts doesn't buy their batteries !!!
Think of this ---dead short is two words , dead and short , neither which you want to have happen to your cells.