Let's take a poll..... Should KN go to a flat track or stay as is?
Also post sugestions of what inventory KN should have.

~Paul

I guess because oval cars are scarce except at tracks, they should stock all the major component for the top three or four cars used in oval. I would like to see the stuff that is out of stock, replaced sooner so that when you need it, it's there. It is always a bummer when you break a commonly broken item and you have to wait a week to get it. Now in Chad's defense, that hasn't happened since I have been coming there this season. Specialty tools like spring post tools (hint hint), brush hood alignment tools, dremel accessories, servos, and those kinds of things should be stocked also.
One thing I will say is this... unlike the argument about flat vs banked "if you build it, they will come" If you stock it, we will buy it. You can't go wrong with having stuff in the showcase, it's money in the bank.
Rick<><

Tire traction compound's, tires, parts for the cars that are in use, T-plates,bodies,
Car kits, rental's, Tape, lead, gears, motors,batts,esc's, chargers....

This track hasn't had a crowd since Nick and Karen sold out. Maybe someone should contact them for advice.

Do companies offer any parts to tracks on consignment to help them out?and as they sell they could increase the amt.they ship helping both the track with parts and advertise a companies product.just a suggestion.

I have never been to K&N before but my home track is banked and it is very fast and there arent many banked tracks that I know of around today. and two will be closing soon Central Maine R/C speedway(Fairfeild,ME and my home track) and Barre Town Raceway (Barre,VT) so I think you should stay banked.

The only reason I go to Knn is because its one of the best tracks ever built fun, and challenging its what makes it special.
Sorry Chad but Jim Rufiange is correct knn hasn't been a success since Nick and Karen.
I wish there was a way to get huge croweds there again. Mabe its time for change but if you make it flat its just like every where elce (boring) I do know Nick and Karen spent a lot of time promoting races, getting sponsors for races, big name drivers for every monthly event. Thats a big reason why people showed (to compete against the best).
Thats why the snowbirds have taken over. Something has to be done to attract the racer back to knn.
You have to do what ever it takes to draw the crowd mabe 2006 becomes the era of the flat knn speedway (oh less banking mabe just a thought).

Scott Hauenstein

Keep the track the way it is, make the hobby shop turn a profit and promote not only bigger races but the track in general. Do mailings, advertise in r/c publications, newspapers to get the locals aware of the facility. We need to get the weekly turnouts up and the rest will follow, new blood must be drawn in.

Let's take a poll..... Should KN go to a flat track or stay as is?
Also post sugestions of what inventory KN should have.

~Paul

If you decide to go with a new track and need some carpet installed. I'll be more than happy to install it for you for FREE. Could save you some money there...... just contact Ernie P @ ThunderRoad R/C.......

Kenny@RAPTOR

It would be tragic to replace that track with a cookie cutter flat track.

go FLAT and add some more classes like TC and gearbox car n truck , make the place more racer friendly .......Nick n Karen ruled the roost there for years .....jim is right someone should contact Nick and see what he has to offer for idea's !!!!

KN wouldnt be the same not being banked, The few Winterblasts I ran in 6 cell stock and 6 cell mod, I had a blast even sucking as bad as I did!:D

Hey put the netting up to the ceiling and I`ll come over with some 3d Foamies, and fly in the track area, hell that will draw a crowd to see me bashing off the rafters!!!!! LOL!!!!:D

Stock the shop and promote the hell out of the place. The best track in the country could be inside of that building and if it isn't promoted properly it won't do any good no matter if it's flat or banked. There are a lot of people that go to the races outside that don't even know K/N exists. If setup for the track is an issue to outsiders all they have to do is ask us locals. There are plenty of ways to contact us about setup before you even step foot in the building. We will help anyway we can. But please don't wait until a big race day..... Bring your flat track sleds and we can hook you up....

Stick with Banked but, get rid of that carpet and put in Ozite that would take away the home track advantage. The carpet needs to be changed anyway. I think you would draw more people from out of town. On the other hand, if you went to flat you could open it up to more classes, tough decision. Ether way lose the carpet. Just my .02 cents

Bob T

I never raced there but why make it into something everyone else has.It would be like eating the same thing for dinner everynight.You need variety a banked track would seem to be a nice change of pace.My 02 brian w

Im curious of how many people voting in this poll have raced there in the last few months or year.....or even longer....I voted but will be the first to admit Im not sure If
it should count because I only usually go when they have a big event.......I will continue to go wether its flat or banked....But Im sure everyone will agree something
other than the "Status qou" should be done because I cant see it surviving with the
attendance i hear it is getting now.......

got flat then you can run sedan and other classes such as truck racing and stuff like that remenber sedan and flat tracks are where its at

Heck... might want to look up at the top of the thread... :cool:

Keep it banked!!! The diminishing crowds stated the day Nick & Karen sold the track for a very good reason. When you don't promote your business no one else is going to do it for you. From the day they sold to the new (then) owners the feeling was that the new and upcoming internet will solve all our problems. Heck it's the world wide web (WWW) and all will flock to it. Only problem is if you don't have access or you don't ask the exact right question you don't get the answer or info. In the old days people were sent a simple flier with a season calender and then subsequent individual race fliers to remind racers they were coming up. The last time that happened at all was a couple of half owners ago but they sent them out a week and a half before the race (thought he was sending out sale flier for K mart) not giving people time to plan. I will agree with others that you need things to sell on the walls but not if no one knows your there. If you look at the tracks that are still going strong it is not because they are flat or banked it is because the owner has made a concerted effort to promote thier track. You can take some the tracks in the New England area and see those that promote themselfs well. R C Maddness and Maximus are the two big track that come to mind and both owners don't call just opening the doors the end of there promotion. If you opened any business it might be a good idea to let people know you are there. Bull with the build it and they will come!! If you don't know it's there and you haven't been invited to the show the place will remain empty. Get a mailing list going and use the power of the pen. You can even invite trucks, Touring cars , Mini-T, or anything else to come and run oval it dosn't have to be flat for them to play.
Thats my .85 cents worth. Ted C.

Every one is talking about the old days of K/N and how the masses would flock there to race against some of the fastest racers in the country road course or oval. What many do not realize is that K/N was competing with 6 to 8 other facilities within a three hour drive all of which were banked.
You had Fox Hill,Wilmington,Nashua,Walt's,Plainville to name a few and all were pretty well suported by the racers and stocked with parts.
I believe that without some sort of drastic change to accomidate other forms of racing and create a draw like a Snowbirds warm up race,1/18 scale national,road coarse regional or something of that nature all that will happen is a short term spike in attendance by oval racers who feel some sort of guilt if the track were to close at which point it is to late.
Successful tracks cater to multiforms of racing. Oval racing at most facilities is an in-addition to program that is done to draw additional business, not as the main source of income.

Scott Law

go flat. build it and they will come!!!!!! a flat track has so much more to offer for the track owner. the huge problem with the current track is it isn't for begginers. A flat track is much easier to get a car working. plus you can run touring cars!!!!

build it Chad can you say the Winterblast becomes the Snowbirds warmup.

just took a look at the voters. Alot of the guys voting for the banked track are the die hard K&N guys. I also think it funny that alot of people are saying you need to stock the store better and we'll buy it but the complain about paying to practice. lol go figure. Flaten it flaten it flaten it flaten it flatenit gives me a reason to come home before the birds.

I remember the days when the Winter Blast was the warm-up for the Snowbirds. Oh how the mighty have fallen

Several things could be done to help teh place.. without touching the track, or with a new track...

#1 move hobby store upstairs, lock it, put all lights on motion detectors, more heat t-stats up into hobby shop, install maxumis style kep card system, sell yearly memberships for $XXX. This alone, regardless of what track is there, or not, would make enough $$ so that in a year, the track wouldn't take a dime out of pocket to change.. the memberships alone, if sold for say $100 to 150 would probably be enough to pay for it... and the cost of doing this would be minimal.

#2 if a track change is going to happen, moving the pit spaces under the hobby shop, leaving radio impound where it is, and making the entire front area the pit area, would allow for a good increase of width, probably a good 5 feet or more if the track was brought out to the wall, or as close as possible, leave a 3 foot gap for fire safety. This , would allow for a wider racing surface, and no loss of capacity.

#3, advertisment, that will help. Flyers to other tracks, starting a mailing list again, that kind of thing would help, easy to get one, just put a section for address on the bottom of the enty form, the thing that everyone should be filiing out at big races, rahter then a sheet with #'s and lines on it. Sounds petty, but it will make a differnence

#4, have some sort of track championship series, 5 or more races, points at all. Gives alot of people a reaosn to come to all the races, not just a couple. Make the first and last double points as well, karen and nick did that, and the attendance would stay good from the start of september, right thru to the end of MAY, when their last big race of the season was.

#5 Stop the b.s. of being closed when somethign outside is going on. Nick used to put on the brass balls and say oh hell no, I will be open, and you will like it. When clownins took over, that's when downstairs started cracking the whip, and he would spinelessly bend over and take it.... stop that nonsense, there's alot of people that come to those outdoor events, some might even want to get into it. Be smart to have someone outside handing out flyers on friday nights about upstairs at the gate, pitch it like safe racing for kids, stuff like that.. might be a good angle to approach.
Whatever is done, do something! Without a change of some sort, wether it be teh store first, the track , whatever, you need to do something if the track is to survive. 20 race enrty's a week, and selling less then $500 a month out of the store will not keep the doors open. Winter is coming, teh heat will have to be on, with the price of propane jumpping like it is, you'll be spending 1500 a month to heat the place, probably more!

You can even invite trucks, Touring cars , Mini-T, or anything else to come and run oval it dosn't have to be flat for them to play.

Ted C..Is correct, pretty much any car can play on the banks.
At Classic people have ran Stadium Trucks with Foams, Mini-T's, TC's, EDM gearbox cars, Indy cars, Legends, you name it we ran it before.
We found with Mini-T's they are alot faster if you run them around the track the opposite way.

Matter of fact Bud Bartos brings his BRP clan down about once a month. I believe Classic hosts one or 2 of their circuit races a year. It's awesome to see a 20 car BRP A main. To them the big track is like Talladega.

You guys are missing the point for the touring guys,they run ROAD CORSE, and with a flat track this is now a new option, they will NOT run on a banked oval.

I think that alot of people are missing the point. K&N needs a facelift boob job tummy tuck in other words alot of work. it makes more sense for Chad to flaten it and then do all the other things. you guys say that attendance is low because of the Hobby Shop. lol I race there for the first time in 4 years last november. and let me tell yah after running on these flat tracks of different sizes and shapes. the banks don't compare. KN was special back in the 90's but so want Bon Jovi lol change is good change great change is needed. oh yah I like lamballs Idea of the key card deal. no more not racing then practicing after for free.

If I was to build a track from a track owner's standpoint then yes flat does offer more racing options with Road course and Oval which = more Revenue.

But you can't tell me running a cookie cutter 160' flat track is more fun that racing at Sandhills, Classic or BMS ?

Hoist the banked oval up to the ceiling and put down a flat carpet. Now you have two options for oval; you can run flat or drop the banked track down when ever you want, and you can accomodate the touring cars in as well.

Flat ovals are nice but they tend to all be the same after a while. Banked ovals are all unique. Each one has it's own personality, just like changing the layout of a touring car track.

If we got half of the people that voted on this poll to show up every week or even every other week we would'nt be having this discussion.;)

Amen Mark :thumbsup:

I would call chris marcy and Heath at maximus to see which keeps the store going. Again, I think concentrating on the track fees to keep the doors open is a mistake. The retail shop must do it. I would venture to say that maximus does not get as many racers on a weekly basis but appears to be thriving because of an excellent shop. I myself spent a few hundred dollars there last month buying stuff I needed that I would have bought at K/N while racing there weekly. Fix the shop, not the track. Why on earth would you NOT want to? Money/Profits in the bank. As a small buisiness owner myself, it always hurts to shell out a fair amount of $$$ for stock, especially when things are tight. Without exception at the end of the next month I was glad I did it when I can sell my service/product, turn a profit, and invest even more the next month. After a few months it just snowballs. No risk, No gain.

i can tell you what keeps madness going and is not oval racing we get between 40 to 60 drivers on friday night to run mint t on the road course. we set up jumps and stuff but it is all layed back and fun sundays we get between 20 to 40 guys for sedan racing and big races we get 50 to 60 ovla last weekedn was the biggest turn out in a while btu we are trying new things to get the crowd back in . we changed some stuff and are trying new things but all in all we are changing like k/n should .


answer me this how many of you guys have a car just for k/n ?
i know i did when i ran oval thier..

now as for sedan on the oval did that already when the manchester guys ran it it was no fun track is not big enought to do it . mini t are a great class but you need jumps and with the banking of k/n it would be hard to get them around

now jason had a good point why dont you make the track wider shorten it up by 20 feet and move the pits to where the store is then hte track would be big enought to run everything . a 36 or 48 by 100 track is dialed for sedan or flat ovla racing ..

but this is just a road course guy talking but thier has to be some reason most of the new hobby stores are building flat tracks.

AS A BUSINESS OWNER HOW CAN YOU CATER TO just oval make it flat run everything!

that is if ya like making money? or satisfying a few guys who get batteries and motors straight from the manufactuers anyway!

As far as the buisness goes, I know nothing about ti so i couldnt tell ya. But I raced at K&N for the first time a couple of weeks ago and i gotta say, I love the banked oval. Even though my car was junk it was a refreshing change form the flat tracks. I mean I can go to 3 other flat tracks of various sizes which are just as far if not closer for me to travel to, so why would I want to go to another flat track? Banked breaks up the flatness!

DONT DISAGREE WITH YA BANKED IS COOL but if i owned a track would i want 35 racers on a friday night or 35 on friday 50 on sat and so on and so on !

You guys are just assuming that road course drivers will flock to K/N if it goes flat. Big gamble in my opinion. That would mean that all the roadcourse drivers from madness would suddenly abandon thier home track, which we all know wont happen. The S/K guys wont even run at K/N, and they actually run better on the banks. Look at a Radical ricks in taunton. He built a state of the art facility with a flat track and a nice roadcourse. I dont think he ever had 1 night of organised roadcorse racing because all the roadcourse drivers stayed at Big boy toys nearby. The shop was mediocre with prices 25% above retail in some cases which really hurt them. K/N would esentially be trying the same thing hoping to lure drivers from madness on the road course. Why try to compete against the best in the buisiness when you have your own exclusive niche that we KNOW can work based on 10 years of history? Find out what Nick and karen did, try to duplicate it as close as you can, and there is your answer IMHO. I do have a roadcourse car and would run roadcourse once and a while.

You've got to remember when Nick & Karen owned KN, 80 to 90% of rc racing was oval. Things have changed alot over the last 10 years. Also I think if it was flat and KN runs oppsite days or nights then maddness people will come and race especially if the track would be the same size as snowbirds. Paul

Has anyone that is pushing the flat track aspect of the deal given any though to how much money it would take to change from banked to flat. Now we are talking about a track that isn't to flush right now. First most of you dont know how much material (wood) is in that track. It is not going to be just take out the sawall and cut it up real easily to start with. Second someone better come up with a little extra scratch to pay for the many dumpster loads and disposal fees to get rid of the waste. The days of hoping Mark will let you bury it out back are gone!!! Next what type of base is going to be put down so that the new carpet will be flat or were you planning on the new carpet off roar course. Now how much is the new carpet going to cost$$$ How much work and expense would it be to move the store up stairs. Better beef up the floors for it was never made for anything other than light storage. I bet the staircase would need to be changed to come anywhere near code. KN is not walking into a new unused building with a hopefuly close to flat concrete floor like most tracks. When I hear this talk you guys make it sound like someone here has some money??? KN could advertize, stock the shelves, and put new carpet down on the oval for much cheaper price than putting in flat at this point. Buy the way to answer the question why do so many tracks put in flat tracks??? IT'S CHEAPER!!!!
I was there watching Touring cars run around the track when they were there. Who said they had to run Road Course why can't they run Oval as something different. Same with Mini-T's and the rest. They don't have to do it as a steady diet but some may find they like it. When I hear people talk about having to have a second car setup to run on the banks I find it funny. It is amazing to believe that most Flattrackers don't have a second car kicking around. If you walked around and asked most KN drivers if they have a flat track car the answer would be yes even though they don't use them all the time (but they seem to show up at R C Maddness, Maxumas, Rad Ricks, Snowbirds, etc.) It shouldn't be that hard for guys that run flat track to put together a car to play on the banks every now and then. You may not run in the A-main but neither do all the regulars at KN every week. There isn't a class out there that couldn't be run on the banks if they wanted to come play. It's interesting to see this topic talked about but unless someone just become Chad's new sugardaddy I don't see this happening any time in the future. The question should be what needs to be done to get people back. What would touring cars, mini-T's, etc need or want to play on the oval (it is possable for them to just turn left and then right once to enter the pit road.) There are some things that need to change but lets keep it a little closer to reality. Ted C.

Has anyone that is pushing the flat track aspect of the deal given any though to how much money it would take to change from banked to flat. Now we are talking about a track that isn't to flush right now. First most of you dont know how much material (wood) is in that track. It is not going to be just take out the sawall and cut it up real easily to start with. Second someone better come up with a little extra scratch to pay for the many dumpster loads and disposal fees to get rid of the waste. The days of hoping Mark will let you bury it out back are gone!!! Next what type of base is going to be put down so that the new carpet will be flat or were you planning on the new carpet off roar course. Now how much is the new carpet going to cost$$$ How much work and expense would it be to move the store up stairs. Better beef up the floors for it was never made for anything other than light storage. I bet the staircase would need to be changed to come anywhere near code. KN is not walking into a new unused building with a hopefuly close to flat concrete floor like most tracks. When I hear this talk you guys make it sound like someone here has some money??? KN could advertize, stock the shelves, and put new carpet down on the oval for much cheaper price than putting in flat at this point. Buy the way to answer the question why do so many tracks put in flat tracks??? IT'S CHEAPER!!!!
I was there watching Touring cars run around the track when they were there. Who said they had to run Road Course why can't they run Oval as something different. Same with Mini-T's and the rest. They don't have to do it as a steady diet but some may find they like it. When I hear people talk about having to have a second car setup to run on the banks I find it funny. It is amazing to believe that most Flattrackers don't have a second car kicking around. If you walked around and asked most KN drivers if they have a flat track car the answer would be yes even though they don't use them all the time (but they seem to show up at R C Maddness, Maxumas, Rad Ricks, Snowbirds, etc.) It shouldn't be that hard for guys that run flat track to put together a car to play on the banks every now and then. You may not run in the A-main but neither do all the regulars at KN every week. There isn't a class out there that couldn't be run on the banks if they wanted to come play. It's interesting to see this topic talked about but unless someone just become Chad's new sugardaddy I don't see this happening any time in the future. The question should be what needs to be done to get people back. What would touring cars, mini-T's, etc need or want to play on the oval (it is possable for them to just turn left and then right once to enter the pit road.) There are some things that need to change but lets keep it a little closer to reality. Ted C.

Its going to cost the same to remove it when it closes.. Do it while there is still a chance to stay open.. Ive seen alot of tracks in wisconsin totally stop running oval this year.. we have two left.. one gets a crowd, the other doesnt.. we have all flat tracks here.. oval was replaced by touring... since we have gone to one track, we average 30 racers.. thats a good day.. Alot of it was to many tracks within a certain area, and people would rather race 5 min away then travel.. well 10 people here and there doesnt work.. you need to get people to come from other places..

also touring cars run roadcourse because that is what they are designed for. how is someone going to practice for a big touring race on an ovaltrack..something diff is nice, but i doubt a road course guy wants to change his setup to go in circles.. why do that when he can travel a short way to do what he wants..

I was up there this past Sunday.....I am not one of the regulars..I live 2 hrs each way
away...I try to make all of K/N's trophy race....and a weekly race when I can.........I
was shocked to see only 3-4 of the regulars there...It ended up being a practice day...
.
I also want to thank Ted C. and Paul C for there help...I learned alot on what changes
my car needed...Thanks for the frontend rebuild.......and the radio tuneup guys........
.
The point I wanted to make is...Where were all the regulars.????...I enjoy travelling to other events but I cant see supporting other tracks when they wont come to yours...
Charity starts at home guys.......at your home track...... Bat brought up a good point a few posts back...If half the people in this poll showed up to race...they wouldnt need this poll..............Hope to see many faces at the "Winterblast Warmup"

TED you make a good point about the money stuff but look at it like this the carpet needs to be changed anyway its what 20 years old now a that is the biggest reason a lot of peope dont go their no one runs on hook and loop any more its out dated so that why you need a car just for k/n to many changes to only have one car. then you have to look at fixing the track i knowthe bump coming out of 4 can not be getting any better ? sure its going to cost money to do all the hanges but i bet in the long run it will be worth it if he runs road course on saturdays like manchester did but have real layout unlike they did he will get a crowd . plus then we can start a series for both road course and oval . like the orl did down south .. to keep this place open it needs to change like the times or it will die and the doors will never open again..

i bet if you look at the peole that do not want the track to change they are the same people that will buy stuff off the internet beause its cheaper or try to get sponsored so they get a discount or ones that never travel to get the word out abotu big races their home track is holding /





this is my 2 cents dont take it as personal bashing on anyone i just want to see what is best for this place .. ]



remember madness has been open so long because it changes i dont want to tell you how many time we have ripped the carpet out to put dirt in just to take the dirtback out and put carpet in

Let's start a new poll:

Should Daytona go flat or stay banked?

Seriously, A flat KN wouldn't be KN'ish. I've heard so much about the "big banked track" it's become some sort of a legend. Maybe I won't ever get to race there but if ever I do I don't want to know nothing about a flat track!

Well said Heckler!

You have to quit talking about it and do whatever your going to do, at a min I think your going to have to put down new carpet and hopefully not the same kind, this time go with Ozite or Fan Fare and do it before your December 11th race. Just making that change will bring alot of people back but, whatever you do you have to do it soon or you will lose the whole season. Good luck with whatever you decide, I hope you can turn it around.

Bob T

Flat track racing started it all...... banked tracks became the "in-thing", now flat tracks is back to the front....... give it time, banked tracks will come back "AGAIN".....


My point is, DO YOUR OWN THING, as the OWNER, build what YOU WANT! Racers will race, or they are not racers........

Flat tracks are cheap and not impressive to the eye.....why you think the SNOWBIRD's track is flat? Because it's cheap to build, that's why. I would have more respect for an owner that built an impressive banked oval, rather than someone that just slapped some ozite on a concrete floor and said.....Let's race!

Kenny@RAPTOR

what does the "KN" stand for in KN?

My guess (And only a guess) would be "K aren/N ick"

oh i see. why is it still called KN then? do they help out or somthing?

If my guess is correct, then I would think it's because the name itself has been around forever. Grandfathered into the R/C World if you will.........

Bill Johnson