My chassis

Just thought I'd post some pictures of my chassis, comments welcome!

I have lots of pictures in a gallery which hopefully still works. All pictures in the Gallery can be enlarged by clicking on then, or all 23 pictures can be viewed as a slideshow:

click here (http://www.icdphotos.com/album/1250940)

http://www.bglawns.com/Mk%201%20(35b).JPG

At the moment it is made of stamped pieces of steel, bonded together with silver solder. The pieces are coated to prevent electrical shorts. Despite the extra weight, the car has good speed. I cannot at the moment get the most from the chassis as the guide pin keeps breaking.

In due course I expect the car to beat any Tomy SRT with the same running gear. It can corner on rails because the magnets can protrude below the chassis line but still achieve very good top end because it can run on very tall tyres.

To reach that goal the chassis will need to go on a diet, so the next step is to get it cast in resin using a secret method based on using high temperatures. I think it was a good idea to make the chassis from steel pieces as they could be redesigned/re-stamped very quickly (although not cheaply!!) before the more time consuming process of casting begins.

The adjustable magnets work like a charm, I can get the car to corner as if running on very low tyres whilst in fact running the very highest out there. Or the reverse of course. The adjustable guide pin has been less of a sucess, but this is because of using a weak material. I'm sure the ability to screw the pin down to the bottom of any slot and move back/fowards will be worth having in time.

BUT

I need to get the #00-90 (¼" in length) screw made in steel because it snaps far too easily at the moment. Know any good metal shops that work down that small??

Really interesting Deane, I really like the adjustable guide pin idea. Would be awesome for me as I drive two very diffrent tracks ( Or will when I get Moved to the new house) So being able to switch from a short tight track to the Oval would be a lot easier then swithing cars and learning a whole new setup instead of just the turning point. Keep us posted!


Coach!~

Really interesting Deane, I really like the adjustable guide pin idea. Would be awesome for me as I drive two very diffrent tracks ( Or will when I get Moved to the new house) So being able to switch from a short tight track to the Oval would be a lot easier then swithing cars and learning a whole new setup instead of just the turning point. Keep us posted!


Coach!~

The pin has lots of possibilities, but the whole car is screwed unless I solve the problem with it. I did wonder about fitting a spring so that the pin would float but always be at max depth and the forward and back movement should mean the handling charateristics can be varied hugely.

Coach - Keep and eye and ear out for any metal shops or 'guy with a workshop' ?


dw

Is there any way to fix the pin and use existing ones? I love the adjustable traction magnet in the back, is it the "rare earth" type I see at Radio Shack?

Is there any way to fix the pin and use existing ones? I love the adjustable traction magnet in the back, is it the "rare earth" type I see at Radio Shack?

I guess the steel plate that houses the slot could be redesigned, but that is a pretty expensive process. Plus the guy who made the chassis for me has changed jobs and does not have the free time anymore.

Besides the two lots of adjustability are 'worth fighting for'

The magnets are .06'' x .187'', a pretty common size so it is probable they sell them in 'Shack. But I buy them in bulk on line, it is amazing how cheap these rare earth jobbies are now.

So guys, know anyone with a lathe, mill, workshop etc???


dw :)

This is definetly one of the cooler things I have seen go by me in a while.I mess with magnet cars quite a bit,but not a whole lot with the Tomy SRTs.If something like this was out there,I'd DEFINETLY be interested!!!!!!! This takes that style car to a whole new level.

I love the adjustable magnet setup.It certainly would eliminate the need for having a box of different sized tires.

I would imagine the cost of machining each and every guide pin would be rather costly.What does it run like with just the brass screw and nut that I saw in some of the pics on your site????Is that the one that you say snaps all the time????

What is the deal with the "can" type motors as far as performance is concerned??? Do they make them with "hot" arms,or different magnet material????

For many years,I have been kicking around ideas in my head of chassis I would like to build from scratch.I applaud you for actually going and doing it.Big thumbs up!!!!!!

Please update us often on your progress.

Mike

I certainly admire your determination and craftsmanship. It looks quite well done. Changing to a conventional variable guidepin like on the Patriot P3S and Storm would solve the pin problem and also allow the use of widely available parts. The adjustable height magnets certainly put a twist on other chassis that follow this same basic design pattern, e.g., Tomy Turbo, Marchon, MicroScalectrix, Artin, etc.

I see the adjustable magnet design on your chassis as introducing another variable to the equation but not totally eliminating any of the existing variables like tire height, gearing, motor heating, magnetic drag, etc. One of my concerns about 'can" motor based designs is center of gravity. My observation of Turbos and SRTs is that they are top heavy. I've never had an SRT that handled nearly as well as a Super G+, much less a G3 or Storm, on a reasonable sized track. The SRTs in particular grip like the dickens right up to the breaking point of the magnets and then they suddenly roll over and fly off the track quite violently. On your chassis I would still want to slam the whole chassis down as far as I can get it with tire height, adjust top end versus acceleration with the gearing, and then start tweaking the magnets for fine tuning. Having that little extra degree of magnet tuning would make things more interesting. I'd have to experiment with magnet-only means of performance tuning before I got a warm and fuzzy feeling about running tall tires with monster neo magnets nearly scraping the rails. Would be interesting to try.

I'll play the devil's advocate and ask some pointed questions just to give you an opportunity to state the case for your creation:

1) Okay, so you've created a Turbo with adjustable magnets. Why should I care?

2) How much will this chassis cost versus a Tomy Turbo or SRT (or Marchon, etc.)?

3) The Tomy Turbo and SRT have almost no following in the USA in organized racing leagues. Are you trying to crack into that market? If so, why would this chassis go where no other similar designs have gone?

4) Would you sell this as a bag of parts, RTR chassis, or full car?

5) Can I use existing replacement parts (shoes, springs, axles, wheels, gears, motors) or must I buy them from you?

6) One of the main inhibitors to the Tomy SRT and SG+ in mainstream box stock and super stock racing leagues is the use of neo or poly magnets. Would you also make ceramic magnets available?

7) Lexan body mounts?

Keep up the excellent work.

Mike, you can get Tomy 'can' motors with any hot winds from BSRT. They have a $10 hot arm that's very strong (and popular with 1:32 go-kart racers) and they'll cutom wind you anything you want.

This is definetly one of the cooler things I have seen go by me in a while.

I love the adjustable magnet setup.It certainly would eliminate the need for having a box of different sized tires.


Mike

Thanks for the kind words. This project has taken a long time to get this far, with many setbacks & has cost me a pretty penny. But a few words of encouragement here and there go a long way!

I can confirm that the brass pin you saw in the pictures is the part that keeps failing. It seems that brass is simply too weak, plus the fact the part is threaded no doubt exaserbates the problem.

As for Can motors, there is quite a range to play with. The standard Mabuchi motors come in a range of 'colors', red being the most common one we see. Any SG+ arm can be swapped in, including all the hotted ones from companies like Slottech.

I also aim to improve the range further by making NEO magnets for them....

dw

I'll play the devil's advocate and ask some pointed questions just to give you an opportunity to state the case for your creation:

1) Okay, so you've created a Turbo with adjustable magnets. Why should I care?

2) How much will this chassis cost versus a Tomy Turbo or SRT (or Marchon, etc.)?

3) The Tomy Turbo and SRT have almost no following in the USA in organized racing leagues. Are you trying to crack into that market? If so, why would this chassis go where no other similar designs have gone?

4) Would you sell this as a bag of parts, RTR chassis, or full car?

5) Can I use existing replacement parts (shoes, springs, axles, wheels, gears, motors) or must I buy them from you?

6) One of the main inhibitors to the Tomy SRT and SG+ in mainstream box stock and super stock racing leagues is the use of neo or poly magnets. Would you also make ceramic magnets available?

7) Lexan body mounts?

Keep up the excellent work.

To understand the situation behind my design, I think some background would be helpful. Initially, I assumed by talking to a few people, that someone would take the idea and run with. When this didn't happen I realised I would have to go it alone. I had voices telling me not to go for it, there was no guarantee it would work or anyone else would care. Fortunately the voices were in my head and I ignored them!

At the point I did that I decided that I was not going to look at this from a financial point of view or aim at a particular market. If there ever was an end product it would be sold at normal profit margins, but all start up costs would be written off. In effect, this project is a labour of love for me.

Very early on, the decision to go with can motors was made. It is easy to make an aparture in the chassis for these motors and avoids having to make custom bulkheads etc. The first prototye had it's own electricals but these caused me no end of problems, so that is why the MKII is a Turbo clone.

Whilst I would like to crack various markets, I do think it is unlikely the serious guys will want to know. The don't race can motor cars now, and that is not likely to change anytime soon. However there are huge amounts of people who race at home (but to quite a professional level, especially in the US) and it would be nice to reach them.

At the moment the idea is to sell the chassis in the barest possible form. It will run with Tomy motors, gears, axles and electricals so not supplying them will keep the cost down. I do plan some motor upgrades for the future.

I would love to provide the car with ceramic magnets. The problem is two fold. The magnets in my chassis are .187'' dia, a size you will see stocked by all the various companies online. But I have not been able to find the same size in ceramic. Secondly, although the magnets in my chassis are common size they have a bespoke tweak to help fitment so I'd need the ceramic magnet to be the same. Clearly there are companies that make this stuff, because Tomy, Tyco etc have used them, but I haven't found any yet.

As for Lexan bodies, I hadn't thought about it but it should be possible if the demand is there.


dw

So guys, know anyone with a lathe, mill, workshop etc???


dw :)

I know this may sound silly..
But have you looked on-line?
I am sure there is boards like this one for people that do metal working.
Like this:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/forumdisplay.php?f=202

But I would think that there are boards that have been around a little bit longer than that one...

Scott

i really like the idea of an adjustable magnet set up.

i do have a suggestion that might save you from tearing your hair out over the guide pin.

why not simply sell a kit for modifiying an exsiting tomy turbo to have adjustable magnets.

i think such a kit would have the magnets, the mechanism for adjusting the magnet (presumably a set screw and allen wrench), and a polymer support for the magnets and set screw, sized to fit where the stock tomy bar magnet goes now. the only part you would need to have made is the polymer support, and i think you have some experieicne in that area already. it seems you have already sourced the set screw and the magnets.

you would be giving up the adjustable guide pin feature, but you would also drastically simplify your chosen task of providing other slot heads a slot car with easily adjustable magents

ill take a dozen!

Deane, I really appreciate your giving us some insight into your design. I think you took a very smart approach. The Turbo and its derivatives are very logical designs. The Turbo may not be the ultimate performer but it is a rock solid and straightforward. If I were spending my money to build a hobby quality slot car chassis and wanted the best overall combination of cost, performance, ease of construction, and ease of maintenance it would definately follow the Turbo model. Being able to snap out the entire motor box makes the chassis much easier to maintain. Chassis like the SG+ and Tyco 440 are much more complicated and difficult to maintain, especially for youngsters.

I wish you much success with your innovative new product.

i really like the idea of an adjustable magnet set up.

i do have a suggestion that might save you from tearing your hair out over the guide pin.

why not simply sell a kit for modifiying an exsiting tomy turbo to have adjustable magnets.

i think such a kit would have the magnets, the mechanism for adjusting the magnet (presumably a set screw and allen wrench), and a polymer support for the magnets and set screw, sized to fit where the stock tomy bar magnet goes now. the only part you would need to have made is the polymer support, and i think you have some experieicne in that area already. it seems you have already sourced the set screw and the magnets.

you would be giving up the adjustable guide pin feature, but you would also drastically simplify your chosen task of providing other slot heads a slot car with easily adjustable magents

ill take a dozen!

Some years before the SRT came out I did try something similar, both for the Turbo and the Tyco HP7. I made crude (but usable) copies of their magnets in wood and then drilled holes through in the appropriate places.

I made the bore on the holes as wide as possible without the block falling apart! I then placed some neo magnets in the holes, adjustment at that stage being done by pushing with a thin dowel!

Although the cars went OK, they simply were not quick enough. The reason being there was not enough magnetic footprint above the rails. To make matters worse the nature of the magnets (discs) meant they made the handling very sensitive.

If the car went off line by even the tinniest amount it meant the width of magnet directly above the rail reduced, so the car went off line even more in a kind of cascade failure. To the naked eye the cars simply deslotted for no apparent reason. I think the last Life_like chassis suffers from this too.

Following this I did make a block with full sized magnets, non adjustable (see attachment). With my current chassis, I may have done my self a disservice calling it a Turbo clone. It has huge, adjustable magnets but still keeps the wheelbase for Tomy bodies...

At the moment it is made of stamped pieces of steel, bonded together with silver solder. The pieces are coated to prevent electrical shorts. Despite the extra weight, the car has good speed. I cannot at the moment get the most from the chassis as the guide pin keeps breaking.



Here is a thought...
Why don't you make one of these from aluminum?
Or even get squirrley and make one from titanium...

Scott

Try here:
http://getyourwebsitehere.com/scratchbuilt/

I know it is primaraly brass chassis in larger scales...
But you just may be able to find some help there....
After all... Building slotcars is what they do...
Scott

Have you given any thought to aluminum? It can be anodized which hardens and strengthens it. A Home anodizing set up isnt hard or expensive.
http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize99.html