http://onroadracing.com/crl

I can't wait. Flyer is posted on the above website. Final rules will be up there before the first race. I know that I'll get questions about battery and motor rules, so I'll post a little of what you need to know right now. We will allow 3800s, 3700s, 3300s and lower. Nothing above 3800s is legal. As for motors, no hybrids will be allowed (i.e. C1 arm in a C2 can, or green machine arm in Monster can or Orion arm in a Trinity can). Some racers don't like this, but this is a much easier way to manage tech. So, don't even bother practicing with these motors for a CRL. We will do random checks (probably 3 or more vehicles each race) and if caught with a hybrid or illegal motor, you'll lose that round and points if it is in the main.

Feel free to post additional questions here or contact me by PM, e-mail or phone.

BRRRrrrAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAaaAaaaa AAaAa!

That is my best Aaron Bomia impression.

http://onroadracing.com/crl/contact.php
My favorite quote on this page is:

Contact Keith for any questions regarding the Carpet Racing League.
At the track, he is the tall, lanky guy with the cars that are painted green. Trust us, you can't miss his cars.

Give Rich the props for that. I laughed too. Just to make it easier to find me, I plan to wear bright green pants, a white shirt and black shoes and hat at the CRL. :)

I picked up on the "green theme " this year too ........ green is cool !

... As for motors, no hybrids will be allowed (i.e. C1 arm in a C2 can, or green machine arm in Monster can or Orion arm in a Trinity can). Some racers don't like this, but this is a much easier way to manage tech. So, don't even bother practicing with these motors for a CRL. We will do random checks (probably 3 or more vehicles each race) and if caught with a hybrid or illegal motor, you'll lose that round and points if it is in the main.

Feel free to post additional questions here or contact me by PM, e-mail or phone.

Keith - If you go STRICTLY by ROAR rules for 19T, the only legal motor is a fairly new C2 (or an older one with a new "cross-wrap" armature). Nothing else that I can find from other brands meets ALL ROAR rules for 19T.

Was planing on making the trip down but with the date change we cant:drunk: .If the rest of the dates remain the same we can make them :thumbsup:

For those going to the race, don't forget that there is a red light and speeding camera on woodville rd at the light in front of the school. I hear it clicks off a picture at 46mph. The speed limit is 35mph.

Tim

Good call! You'd think I'd remember since I got a warning letter from them for speeding through there. Unfortunately, I'll probably forget again come the 22nd.

-Rich

I'm sure Ted has his memories of it and he wasn't even driving.

Keith - If you go STRICTLY by ROAR rules for 19T, the only legal motor is a fairly new C2 (or an older one with a new "cross-wrap" armature). Nothing else that I can find from other brands meets ALL ROAR rules for 19T.

Keith it might be easier just to say C2, Reedy Quad mag, and the Orion Element/Peak Dynasty are the only legal ones and no hybrids or handwound arms. This is what was used for the Vegas race and it's pretty self explaiatory. The only other thing is I know some have the Corally 19t (meets all ROAR specs) and the Atlas 19t. But hey it is your series. So it should be as long as they meet Hammy Rules.

Jesse, Andrew and myself will be making the trip down from the west side.
So much racing and so little time.
-Fred

Keith the web site is cool. There is only one thing that I would change though. Josh's CEFX site is a ".net". I'm glad to see the CRL is back this year. I had a good time DQing Keith. :devil:

Could you please post websites and or addresses to all the tracks. Toledo is going to be the closest and that is 2 hours away. I am just wandering if it is worth the trip?

Could you please post websites and or addresses to all the tracks. Toledo is going to be the closest and that is 2 hours away. I am just wandering if it is worth the trip?
Trust us brotherman, it'll be worth the effort... ;)

-Sean

Smoothie:

Hi

Dude. I drive 250(one-way) miles to race at Halo. it's THAT good. and the CRL race makes it that much better. well worth a 2 hr drive... I wish it was a 2 hr drive for us we'd be there every weekend.

Rich:

You and Fred going to the CRL race on the 22nd?????? (and bring the TC3)

Tim,

Yep, Fred and I will be there. I'll just be racing 1/12th stock and 19-turn. No TC for me. :)

Fred will be racing TC and 1/12th.

-Rich

Hi Keith,

Any ruling on the 19-turn motors that will be allowed (considering the info provided above regarding 19-turn motors)? I need to purchase a 19-turn motor and I only want to purchase one, so I'd like it to be legal for the series. :D

I was looking at the new Integy 19-turn. It is tagged, is fixed timing and uses standard brushes.

-Rich

Rich:

Hi,

Look at the Atlas 19t also. (might be the same one..not sure) runs like a Reedy but keeps pulling long after the Reedy stops. they flat out rock.
for more info check out the Express thread on rctech. Tag has posted a bit about them.
sorry your not running TC. maybe I'll have to get Mini into a 1-12th scale so you to can have some fun.

Hi Keith,

Any ruling on the 19-turn motors that will be allowed (considering the info provided above regarding 19-turn motors)? I need to purchase a 19-turn motor and I only want to purchase one, so I'd like it to be legal for the series. :D

I was looking at the new Integy 19-turn. It is tagged, is fixed timing and uses standard brushes.

-Rich

19 turn, tagged arm, fixed timing and standard brush type. No V-brushes, no hand wound arms, no hybrids, no changing brush hoods to a different type than what comes with the motor and no swapping out magnets. For the cheaters out there, did I miss any of the standard cheater tricks?

Anyone know the issue with the old C1 motors? Seems like older technology would be slower anyway? I ask because I have one laying in the box from a couple of years ago.

Keith , The old C 1 arm didn't have a com lock , crank em up . LOL

I've been away from this board for quite some time, so thanks for remembering me Rich. Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

BRRRrrrAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAaaAaaaa AAaAa!


That is my best Aaron Bomia impression.

I think that you pretty much hit everything Keith.

The round brushes (v brushes) are slow in 12th so they wouldn't be an issue there. I honestly don't know if they would be an advantage in touring or not.

The old C1 arm was hemi wound...It's more like a 18 1/2 turn than a 19. That's why they were running the C1 arms at Vegas. Cheaters!

I definately agree that there should be no untagged arms. Lose the tag and you have to run another arm. It also gets rid of the odd ball arms without tags (19 double).

FB

I think that you pretty much hit everything Keith.

The round brushes (v brushes) are slow in 12th so they wouldn't be an issue there. I honestly don't know if they would be an advantage in touring or not.

The old C1 arm was hemi wound...It's more like a 18 1/2 turn than a 19. That's why they were running the C1 arms at Vegas. Cheaters!

I definately agree that there should be no untagged arms. Lose the tag and you have to run another arm. It also gets rid of the odd ball arms without tags (19 double).

FB


Fred, Fred buddy, you forget that early C2 arms are hemi wound with tags and locks.............soooooo..........hemi wound is legal.

So, THAT is what is in all those Dodge cars, eh? :D

Thanks for the ruling on the motors, Keith. :)

I assume you will continue to check weight and ride-height?

-Rich

I hope so, I feel like DQing Keith again this year. If I'm in tech.

I think that you pretty much hit everything Keith.

The round brushes (v brushes) are slow in 12th so they wouldn't be an issue there. I honestly don't know if they would be an advantage in touring or not.

The old C1 arm was hemi wound...It's more like a 18 1/2 turn than a 19. That's why they were running the C1 arms at Vegas. Cheaters!

I definately agree that there should be no untagged arms. Lose the tag and you have to run another arm. It also gets rid of the odd ball arms without tags (19 double).

FB

Fred,

Martin Crisp (Peak Performance) used the Peak version of the Orion Element to TQ and win 19t rubber TC at Vegas. On another thread he said he used laydown brushes as he said they gave the best overall performance and didn't matter shich type (767, f-brush, 4499). They also make that motor with stand-up, lay-down, and V-brushes. I guess they want to cover all rules.

Don;t forget to bring your MOD 1/12th and TC car's too guys, Sat we had 4 or 5 TC's just practicing and that wasn't even with Josh there!

Yeah Greg, and I eve realy messed up my car. I still haven't found out what I did to it. Besides hiting the wall realy realy hard.

you mean it was more then the motor? WOW

Yeah, but I'm not sure what.

19 turn, tagged arm, fixed timing and standard brush type. No V-brushes, no hand wound arms, no hybrids, no changing brush hoods to a different type than what comes with the motor and no swapping out magnets. For the cheaters out there, did I miss any of the standard cheater tricks?

Anyone know the issue with the old C1 motors? Seems like older technology would be slower anyway? I ask because I have one laying in the box from a couple of years ago.

How about a C1 with the ROAR legal cross-wrap arm? All my C1 arms wore out many years ago. I haven't noticed any meaningful performance difference between my old C1 motors and a C2. Just the luck of the draw which one runs better, though the C2 seems to have slightly stronger magnets (based on a scientific sampling of 1 motor). And if there's any worry about illegal armatures, I can bring my winding resistance tester which can spot any motors that are "accidentally" short on windings. (Ask Dave J. if it works :devil: )

scott, i can't believe you broke your car and i didn't get to help you do it. :lol: see you this weekend? later

keith

How about a C1 with the ROAR legal cross-wrap arm? All my C1 arms wore out many years ago. I haven't noticed any meaningful performance difference between my old C1 motors and a C2. Just the luck of the draw which one runs better, though the C2 seems to have slightly stronger magnets (based on a scientific sampling of 1 motor). And if there's any worry about illegal armatures, I can bring my winding resistance tester which can spot any motors that are "accidentally" short on windings. (Ask Dave J. if it works :devil: )

I do believe that woudl be covered by no hybrids...which should be worded to mean no mixing between manufacturers as well as of the same manufacturer.

19 turn, tagged arm, fixed timing and standard brush type. No V-brushes, no hand wound arms, no hybrids, no changing brush hoods to a different type than what comes with the motor and no swapping out magnets. For the cheaters out there, did I miss any of the standard cheater tricks?

Anyone know the issue with the old C1 motors? Seems like older technology would be slower anyway? I ask because I have one laying in the box from a couple of years ago.

Hi Keith. The only thing I think needs to be added is that ROAR rules for the super stock 19T is that the arm must be wound in Mabuchi cross-wrap style. The only arm I am aware that is this is the current C2 arm. ROAR has now approved the C2 for sanctioned racing. No other 19T motors have been submitted for approval. Hope that helps.

I do believe that woudl be covered by no hybrids...which should be worded to mean no mixing between manufacturers as well as of the same manufacturer.

As far as I know, Trinity hasn't sold a replacement C1 arm for a long time, so there's no way I can NOT "mix" parts in 3 of my old C1 motors. Unless Keith wants to sell me his supposedly "crankable" C1 arm. :D

I got an email from impdog@hobbytalk.com and I can't open the message. If it was a reply to my post above, please resend the message to my email without using the HobbyTalk feature. My address is: leeda@tqci.net


Thx

Any interest in that less popular, but more civilised 19 turn class with RUBBER?? (ducking) Dish? Fred?

Ken

I don't think some of the tracks will allow rubber tire racing on the carpet.

I'm pretty sure Josh's track is foam tire only, as is Hobby Hub.

-Rich

I can make one definitive statement today. There will be no rubber tire classes in this season's CRL. Aren't we past the rubber tires on carpet discussion like two years ago?

As for the 19 turn motor rules, what can we check while the motor is in the car, without tearing the motor down? Can a tech person see the cross wound part of the arm? Should we eliminate the C1 arms or just DQ if someone is caught with a twisted arm? I don't think I like the ROAR rule of limiting to just one motor. I also am thinking, "what's wrong with the v-brush motor?" We need a fair ruling, but lets not turn this into the nationals. Unless you'd prefer that we tear down the top 3 in the A or even top 3 in each class?

Also, I need photos of each manufacturers stock and 19 turn motors for the tech station. Anyone have the time to go search these out? I could use the help with that.

As for the 19 turn motor rules, what can we check while the motor is in the car, without tearing the motor down? Can a tech person see the cross wound part of the arm? Should we eliminate the C1 arms or just DQ if someone is caught with a twisted arm? I don't think I like the ROAR rule of limiting to just one motor. I also am thinking, "what's wrong with the v-brush motor?"

Most (if not all) of the 19 turns have tags on the armature. The C1 & C2 and the old Silver Reedy had extended shafts at the brush end, the new quad-mag doesn't. Don't know about the other brands. Only Clark Kent could see the cross-wrap part of the motor without disassembly, and the Reedys aren't wound that way (unless they've recently changed).

What about this?


19Turn Motor Rules
1. All must be 24deg locked endbell motors.
2. Laydown brushes only, no stand-up or "V" brushes
3. All Arms must be tagged or stamped with "19T" and the motor manufacturer
4. No Hybrids. (ie. C1 arm in a C2 can, or Orion arm in a Trinity can)
5. If a motor is found to be illegal, you will be DQ'd from the class for that race, the motor will be confiscated by the CRL, entry will not be refunded, and you will get 0 points.

Legal Motor List:
Trinity Cameleon 2
Reedy Quad Spec
Surge Atlas 19T
Corally 19 Spec
Orion Element (or the Peak motor)

Keith I can do better than a picture, I will provide you with a Reedy spec 19 motor for tech to use at each race.

Also the motors should have a tag not a stamp.

Walter

Great, and I just ordered a stamp kit. :-p

Also the motors should have a tag not a stamp.

Walter

Hi Keith. The only thing I think needs to be added is that ROAR rules for the super stock 19T is that the arm must be wound in Mabuchi cross-wrap style. The only arm I am aware that is this is the current C2 arm. ROAR has now approved the C2 for sanctioned racing. No other 19T motors have been submitted for approval. Hope that helps.

This series is not affliated with ROAR in any way and uses the main rules as a guideline only for racing. Therefore this should not be added and the current rules are fine as written. Plus this allows for more then one manufacturers motor would which will add to the racing of who cna get what to work better then others.

5. If a motor is found to be illegal, you will be DQ'd from the class for that race, the motor will be confiscated by the CRL, entry will not be refunded, and you will get 0 points.



And may god have mercy on your soul.....

[QUOTE=Motor City Hamilton]I
As for the 19 turn motor rules, what can we check while the motor is in the car, without tearing the motor down? Can a tech person see the cross wound part of the arm? Should we eliminate the C1 arms or just DQ if someone is caught with a twisted arm? I don't think I like the ROAR rule of limiting to just one motor. I also am thinking, "what's wrong with the v-brush motor?" We need a fair ruling, but lets not turn this into the nationals. Unless you'd prefer that we tear down the top 3 in the A or even top 3 in each class?

QUOTE]

Only thing wrong with the v-brushed 19t is it is slow. The factory orion/Peak drivers at the Vegas race used laydown brushes because they were faster.

If you say it has to be cross-over wrapped only the newer C2 is legal.

I think Greg's post summed up the rules that all the so called "19t Spec" motors fall into. The other thing would be NO "cranked" arms. I do believe Walter and others know how to check for that very easily.

I have all the motors in front of me right now (thanks Greg) and on the Reedy, Atlas, Corally, and Orion/Peak motor is it harder to see if the arm is tagged but still possible as the slots are very small. Much like the slots on a MVP stock for those that haven't seen these motors before. It is imposible to see how it is wound.

As for tearing apart the motors you could always do a random draw. The other thing todo is to tear apart any that looks overly fast. It's really not hard to see when people are cheating...remember when someone ran a 23t in a stock can. Again this simplifies it for tech.

All this talk about legal motors makes me want to skip 19T and run mod....sheesh!

Here are links to all of the above mentioned motors:

Team Orion Element (picture shows stand-up endbell)
http://www.teamorion.com/products/motors_spec.asp

Peak Performance Dynasty (picture shows V2 endbell)
http://www.peakmotors.com/Machine+Wound+Motors/Dynasty+V2

Corally Black 19t
http://www.corallyusa.com/2005/motors.htm

Reedy Spec 19t
http://www.rc10.com/shusting/CatalogHub/reedy/new/stock_motors.htm#Spec

Team Trinity Chamelon 2
http://www.teamtrinity.com/motors/19_turn_machinewound.html

Matrix V10r 19s Spec Racing motor (same as Atlas). I could not find a pic of the motor as an Atlas but this is the SAME motor as the Atlas.
http://integy.automated-shops.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=1975&p_catid=27&sid=4wSJJh1Fj5507AX-13105017221.83

I also found this motor on the Matrix webpage which appears to be the same thing as the Reedy Quad 19t but has the smaller 7.5mm standard size comm. DOES NOT SAY IT IS LOCKED AT 24 DEG. TIMING SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS A FIXED ENDBELL.
http://integy.automated-shops.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=2477&p_catid=27&sid=4wSJJh1Fj5507AX-13105017221.83

Also Team Checkpoint now has their 19t spec motor out.
http://www2.omnimodels.com/cgi-bin/wOi0001p?&I=ODOC0491&P=0