I was curious h ow anyone else feels on this subject.. Is it me or does there seem to be new battery war starting?? So far ive seen 3600,3700 and 3800's.. IB cells, GP cells. and now Infinite Power cells.. I sure hope they will all run as good as each other, cause the choices are not cheap..

Well, we have new, stronger batteries on the way. And, they're cheaper than the old batteries. But, if you don't want to switch, the old 3300's are still fine for four minute racing. Whats not to like? Thanks; Ernie P. :cool:

i dont mind having choices as much as when you buy a new battery and you hear its good to dead short. then you hear its not. so by the time you find out the right information you are already in the "testing process" and your brand new battery isnt to great. that happend to my friend and that is the main reason im stickin with my trusty Whiplash 3300's i baught a few months back till all the testing is done :)

joe ivo

Does anyone know which new cells have been and/or will be submited to ROAR for aproval for the 2006 (and beyond) season?

i dont mind having choices as much as when you buy a new battery and you hear its good to dead short. then you hear its not. so by the time you find out the right information you are already in the "testing process" and your brand new battery isnt to great. that happend to my friend and that is the main reason im stickin with my trusty Whiplash 3300's i baught a few months back till all the testing is done :)

joe ivo

Porksalot4L ... I hear you ... I agree, and I do my best to protect my customers' investment. Late last week a red flag was waived in re: to deadshorting some of the latest IB3800 date codes, I beleived it was such a valuable source that I've decided to advise all my current customers to hold on until I verify these allegations.

I can't tell just yet if it was a false alarm or not ... but I'd rather be cautious than sorry.

Steve Salvas
TQ Cells

yeah bein cautious is my middle name. i only like spending my money once if possible :) till then keep up the testing and thanks for the information!

joe ivo

yeah bein cautious is my middle name. i only like spending my money once if possible :) till then keep up the testing and thanks for the information!

joe ivo

:)

Steve.
tqcells.com

As more Asian manufacturers decide that they want to come into the RC racing scene it will most likely create a battery war but in the end it will make for better products for the racer and keep the prices lower. When we first started buying GP cells they were 1.30 less then Sanyo or Panasonics. When GP was the only cell of choice they increased the price and at the end we were paying .80 cents more per cell over a 2 year period and another .60 cents for the GP3700 which is only better in capacity than the GP3300.


When IB came in with the 3600 and now the 3800 it allowed us to keep similar prices to the GP3300 and offer higher capacity cells.

In the end competition will make for a better product at a lower price so racers will benefit.

boy am i glad im not in this goofy business anymore

been in this hobby for 15 years and its been a battery war or battery progression since i started. it started with the old red and yellow 1200!!!!
batteries,motors, chassis and electronics all get better with new advances in technology and so will it be in the future, in the near future we will have brushless motor, lypo battery cars with dsm radios and we will be the better for it and the vehicle will perform better, have to love technology.

dave w1 you still are goofy :) i see that never changes lol

joe ivo

Voodoo batteries will stay in retirement?

It may be good when it is all done with,and everyones cells prove to be better than GP-3300's. but until then we are at there mercy.But i believe it will be a never ending battery war. Keep the 3300's

which part of 3300 are all done, dont people understand....Just like 2000 and 2400 before the 3300....

Man the so called "battery wars" AKA the on going improvement of battery technology, has been going on for the last 20 years. It's not new. Various end users are looking for longer run times before recharging and the RC industry has to follow along with what's available. It will never end. So get used to it. Since I started we've had:
1200 mah SC yellow
1200 mah SCR red
1400 mah SCR red
1500 mah SCR red
1700 mah purple SC Panasonic
1700 mah SCE yellow
1700 mah SCR black
2000 mah
2400 mah
3000 mah
3300 mah
now 3600, 3700 and 3800, and there were probably a few others in between that I just ignored or forgot. So it's just a part of racing. When you hear of a new cell coming out, start throwing some change in a jar to start saving up. Then you'll be ready and it won't hurt so much.

I think we all got spoiled with the 3300's. Man, what a great cell GP gave us. I was used to buying batteries and often before the advent of the 3300's. The 3700 GP's seem to be a good cell the IB's might be great for some but so far they seem to be junk to all who have bought them @ our track, ie: voltage dropping off quickly, false peaking, diminished runtime after only a few runs, venting and cells seeming to become unmatched in the the pack as far as runtime is concerned. I don't even have any 38's yet but I can tell ya, my 36's are not very impressive and display a lot of the same characteristics as the aforementioned 38's. I am sorry but I think we are getting fed a line of Bull when it comes to the IB cells. First we are told not to dead short, then they say "oh yea, do it, it increases voltage" now they are saying not to dead short certain date codes.:freak: I don't know about you guys but I am confused and still buying GP cells.:freak:

I HAVE 12 PACKS OF 3700 AND 10 PACKS OF 3800 IBS THAT IM TESTING SO FOR THE gp is holding up better just my .02

Man the so called "battery wars" AKA the on going improvement of battery technology, has been going on for the last 20 years. It's not new. Various end users are looking for longer run times before recharging and the RC industry has to follow along with what's available. It will never end. So get used to it. Since I started we've had:
1200 mah SC yellow
1200 mah SCR red
1400 mah SCR red
1500 mah SCR red
1700 mah purple SC Panasonic
1700 mah SCE yellow
1700 mah SCR black
2000 mah
2400 mah
3000 mah
3300 mah
now 3600, 3700 and 3800, and there were probably a few others in between that I just ignored or forgot. So it's just a part of racing. When you hear of a new cell coming out, start throwing some change in a jar to start saving up. Then you'll be ready and it won't hurt so much.




you forgot the blue 1200 sanyo!

I hear Al Spina still has dodooo cell wraps... you still dah man dave w 1 :hat:

Blue 1700

Blue 1700



NOT BY SANYO though im not sure about a blue 1700

blue 1700 = Panasonic P170 cell I think

Sanyo had a blue 1700...it was available during the time sanyo had 2000's out..

I,ve been running some GP3700s for a couple months now charging them and deadshorting them just like my GP3300s and they perform just as well as the GP3300s just a Lil more voltage and alot of runtime left over.
Battery War? heck I budget in buying a couple new packs every other month anyway :rolleyes:

I think we all got spoiled with the 3300's. Man, what a great cell GP gave us. I was used to buying batteries and often before the advent of the 3300's. The 3700 GP's seem to be a good cell the IB's might be great for some but so far they seem to be junk to all who have bought them @ our track, ie: voltage dropping off quickly, false peaking, diminished runtime after only a few runs, venting and cells seeming to become unmatched in the the pack as far as runtime is concerned. I don't even have any 38's yet but I can tell ya, my 36's are not very impressive and display a lot of the same characteristics as the aforementioned 38's. I am sorry but I think we are getting fed a line of Bull when it comes to the IB cells. First we are told not to dead short, then they say "oh yea, do it, it increases voltage" now they are saying not to dead short certain date codes.:freak: I don't know about you guys but I am confused and still buying GP cells.:freak:

The GP3300 is a fine cell and was intoduced with 1.13-1.15 average voltage and now has 1.17-1.19 avergae voltage with more capacity. GP did a fine job at improving the cell. The IB cells have had some issues but most of these issues are due to racers using them like GP cells. If you use lower peak detects and follow the basic guidelines on how to care for them they have been holding up real well. IB is also comitted to improving there cells and they have been working hard on the IB3800 and have come out with some great batches lately.

IB cells have won numerous races so they can't be as junky as you say they are.

You can keep racing your GP cells but the fact is that IB cells are faster.

The GP3300 is a fine cell and was intoduced with 1.13-1.15 average voltage and now has 1.17-1.19 avergae voltage with more capacity. GP did a fine job at improving the cell. The IB cells have had some issues but most of these issues are due to racers using them like GP cells. If you use lower peak detects and follow the basic guidelines on how to care for them they have been holding up real well. IB is also comitted to improving there cells and they have been working hard on the IB3800 and have come out with some great batches lately.

IB cells have won numerous races so they can't be as junky as you say they are.

You can keep racing your GP cells but the fact is that IB cells are faster.

Right on Danny.

Steve.
tqcells.com

OK Danny, your cells are the only ones in my box thanks to Barry @ MSA but my 33's are stout compared to the 3600's and I have yet to build a set of 38's. Barry said the new batch he got in was the best he has seen in a while so you know I will be getting some of those! Just keep us updated on the latest info so we don't screw our batteries up. I was using pit bull chargers and bougth 2 T35's to try to do a better job of charging so I hope it helps. Thanks The GP3300 is a fine cell and was intoduced with 1.13-1.15 average voltage and now has 1.17-1.19 avergae voltage with more capacity. GP did a fine job at improving the cell. The IB cells have had some issues but most of these issues are due to racers using them like GP cells. If you use lower peak detects and follow the basic guidelines on how to care for them they have been holding up real well. IB is also comitted to improving there cells and they have been working hard on the IB3800 and have come out with some great batches lately.

IB cells have won numerous races so they can't be as junky as you say they are.

You can keep racing your GP cells but the fact is that IB cells are faster.

I have both the GP 3700 and the IB 3800. Mybe I got lucky, The IB's are working great.

I think you can get a pack from Barry and you will be very happy with it. Just follow the low peak detect setup of .02 and maintenace guidelines and they should give you great results.

If your not happy with it let me know.

I have some of the IB 3800(TQ), they are real stout!! In fact i have run personal best lap times with these new cells! Dont forget, GP changed the 3300 4 or 5 times before we got the last 3300 cells. IB is also working with the Matchers to adjust the cell to our needs. I am sure they will only get better, and man that is sweet!!!
NICK

Thanks Danny I will keep as informed as your site will allow.I think you can get a pack from Barry and you will be very happy with it. Just follow the low peak detect setup of .02 and maintenace guidelines and they should give you great results.

If your not happy with it let me know.

clifford

i got to run the IB 3800's at minn reg amonth ago and fell in love with them!

no goop coming out of them,not vented cells..ran them twice in open mod 4 cell and they ran like a scalded horse...run time was awesome and the lower IR lets all that voltage to the motor like a fire hose ! they are going to be welcomed in stock and 19 turn because of the voltage and low IR and in mod they have great run time..gearing your motors and lowering the peak on your charger are all that are required. buy 2 packs of smc or tq cells ib 3800's and i promise you will be a happy man...i would almost buy them from you if you hated them but i'm a broke man,lol. yes they are that good. the gp 3700 is like the 3300 with a few seconds of run time. compare the IR and run time and it's no contest. gp 3300's changed voltage and run time alot in the last 2 years...i expect IB to improve every 6 months or so as the battery matchers help them tweak the cells for the r/c inviroment. buy 2 packs at a time and take good care of them. don't go overboard buying up every new cell out there. trust smc and you will be fast,lol. ok off the soap box...hope to see you at hobby world soon? peace bill

Bill, I don't/won't know about going to your race @ HW until right before the race, I hope to go though. I have not tried the 38's yet so I am in for an education. Donnie and Sammy have tried them and don't seem to like them, so we will see. I usually buy 8-10 packs at a time for the shop and get a couple out of those to race with. I will have some soon and will let you know what I think.

You shouldn't buy more than a couple of packs at a time this way if the batches improve you can get some of the newer ones. When we first got the 3800 the voltages were 1.16-1.17 now it's 1.17-1.18 and IB is still tweaking the cell.

I think to truly appreciate the power of these cells you need to mess around with motor setup. I'm sure Racin Steve can give you good pointers.

I bought some IB 3800's off the shelf and they rock! Allcells seem to lose runtime anyway but with 400+ @35 does it really matter?
On the plus side the average Joe can now buy really good cells off the shelf and not lose races because of batterys.
On the negative side I think the battery war is getting out of hand again and i would like ROAR to set moratorium on cells and STICK to it.

Personally I dont think spending 160.00 a couple times a year isn't outrageous for good fast, new cells that you need anyway, although in the big picture it may not be the best thing for the hobby. A lot of racers cant do that a couple times a year, and give a little something up because thay have to run thier old cells.

ROAR can't really dictate improvement in technology. I think the racers need to forget about buying multiple packs. My suggestion is just to buy a couple and run them 2 times per raceday. Then if an improvement comes along then you can downgrade your 2 packs as practice packs and get 2 of the newer ones for racing.

It also seems that the IB have such good IR that the difference between a 1.170 and a 1.180 isn't really noticeable on the track which makes it better.

cliff i have 3 packs of IB cells and i'm willing to let you run a pack or two if i see you at hobby world or race rock. like with anything new we need to adjust are thinking and give them a fair shot. kinda like the ultra bird motors we run,lol. on top of that..danny and steve follow the forums and are willing to answer questions. you won't see ernie p on here talking shop. support those who support us! viva la smc he he ok i wipe my nose now...

I think to truly appreciate the power of these cells you need to mess around with motor setup. I'm sure Racin Steve can give you good pointers.

Good point, with these IB3800 cells my best runs in 4-cell stock so far, has been with lower amp draw motors ... "same GP3300 rollout" with .5A-.8A less amp draw at 2.5V with a fan. It might not have been noticeable at first ... but these cells with higher voltage output tend to heat up the motor more ... if you hear a fellow racer say: These IB3800 cells suck ... "they rocked for the first 2 minute then they went flat" ... run to the car with your temp gun and politely offer your help ...

Here's what I experienced this past weekend ...

Track: Glens Falls NY
1st qualifier (5 minutes)...
Monster type (handout, purple endbell)
Motor draw: 8.5A @ 2.5V
Rollout: 1.85
Run: 83 laps 5:01
Motor temp (rotor): 165F :eek:
Comment: Went flat at 2 minute mark, motor smells like shit!

2nd qualifier (5 minutes)...
Epic Stock (2 magnet)
Motor draw: 8.4A @ 2.5V
Rollout: 1.78
Run: 83 laps 5:02
Motor temp (rotor): 140F
Comment: Rollout too short, didn't rock up front

3rd qualifier (5 minutes)...
Monster type (same as 1st qualifier)
Motor draw: 7.6A @ 2.5V (took .010 off leading edge)
Rollout: 1.78
Run: 84 laps 5:02
Motor temp (rotor): 129F
Comment: Rollout too short, didn't rock up front (still) ... motor -36F

A-Main (5 minutes)...
Monster type (same as 1st and 3rd qualifier)
Motor draw: 7.6A @ 2.5V
Rollout: 1.85
Run: 85 laps 5:02:thumbsup:
Motor temp (rotor): 132F :cool:
Comment: WOW ... motor rocked ALL 5 minutes!!!

Steve.
tqcells.com
team Putnam

steve,

what is the best way to get a lower amp draw on the motor then? i noticed that you ran the same motor 1st, 3rd and the main, but the amp draw is lower in the 3rd and main...what did you change to get that?

steve,

what is the best way to get a lower amp draw on the motor then? i noticed that you ran the same motor 1st, 3rd and the main, but the amp draw is lower in the 3rd and main...what did you change to get that?

As posted ...

3rd qualifier (5 minutes)...
Monster type (same as 1st qualifier)
Motor draw: 7.6A @ 2.5V (took .010 off leading edge)

lol.

Steve.
tqcells.com
team Putnam

Thanks for the help Steve. That was a question alot of people had about the new IBs. With having more volts than the 33s, should you drop the RO alittle. I never thought about lowering the amp draw. So basically you didn't change anything between the 2 types of cells just lowered the amp draw.

steve,

very cool:) so, if you had a large comm, you would leave the brush width alone, right? basically, vary the brush width to about 7.6 amps, therefore by adjusting the brush wrap, almost like adjusting the timing...

... sounds good.

paul

rcavenger/zmain loser: I was at Glens Falls w/ Steve, (it's my home track) and this is what we found out:

-Due to the fact that the 3800's voltage is about .10-.15 higher as a pack than the 3300's, the motor's RPM is going to increase. You can compensate for the additional RPM using the following:
-1) decrease your rollout
-2) reduce the RPM and amp draw by taking some material off the leading edge of the brush

We have decreased the rollout and gone a lot faster with the 3800's vs. the 3300's, in testing this summer. The key is taking the time to find the perfect rollout.
With Steve having limited track time to experiment with rollout, and due to the fact that I had a the "track record / reccomended rollout" data for Glens Falls, as well as the motor data from that run, (RPM, watts, etc;) what Steve and I did was compare his motors on the dyno at 5 volts, than 5.10 volts, (about the average increase in voltage from a 3300 to a 3800,) and record the RPM increase. Now, we knew the RPM difference the motor was seeing w/ the 3800's on the track. Since it was greater than the RPM of the motor that holds the record, and the track record rollout was about a 1.85, if he reduced the RPM of his motor to the same as the track record motor, the 1.85 rollout would work...and it did.:thumbsup:

If Steve had more track time to trial and error with rollout, he could have gone fast also by reducing his rollout and finding the new sweet spot, since his motor made more RPM. It was quicker to take the track record RPM and rollout, and adjust his motors RPM to duplicate that so the 1.85 rollout would work.

As I have posted in the past, more amp draw absolutley does not equal more watts.

Hope this helps,
Todd Putnam
Putnam Propulsion
www.putnampropulsion.com
518-452-0422

Steve/Todd,
Interesting findings, thanks !!
I always like when Steve posts cause he gives you all the background detail.

I sent him some info from my testing and he told me I had too many variables going on, and to keep it simple, lol.

Finally the motor tuners are figuring out how to get the extra power out of the IB cells.

I have had so much conflicting reports on these cells based on track perfromance from various racers. Some say they are faster upfront and drop off at the end but they comeback with a 100+ seconds at 35 amps after a run. Others have said they are a bit slower up front but finish faster. And finally some have said they are faster upfront and at the end. My racing experience and knowledged of batteries told me that the cells can't be reacting differently for everyone and the reason must be motor tuning.

Thanks for sharing the info with everyine. This is what message boards should be used for.