About two months ago, I sent PL kits to five guys over on the Aurora Yahoo group. John Branch/Branchbrood/Lonfan was one of these. The other four paid promptly and everythign went without a hitch. Lonfan, on the other hand, refuses to pay me. At first he offered the usual "oh, sorry man" excuses, then moved on to simply ignoring my emails. Here are some excerpts from those emails (the first quote is me, the rest are him...I go by Adhocmail2004@yahoo.com):


Kits mailed out this morning...$6.10 Parcel Post plus 8.55 for the kits equals grand total of $14.65. Should be there this week, but let me know whether or not you see them by Friday.

"HEY ADHOC- I REALLY Want to obtain an Extra of LOTG Snake and A Robot without Smith Oh and the Munster's Livingroom (Herman's Electric Chair Broke when I was Moving!) Lemmie Know Oh and MY Big Lots Has NADA ZIP Ziltch! lol JOHN/LONFAN"

OH MAN DON - That's Great I really only need One (I've Got One already) But Since I forgot Already Did I ask About
The Bowen Wolfman or Munsters Living room Those I'd Like to get As well as ANY color Spidey (The Clear Plastic Web cracked on mine! AGRAGH!) lol

So limmie know how much you need for The Kit(s) including Shipping to:

JOHN BRANCH
...
ANSONIA ,CT.
06401

HEY THANKS SO MUCH PS PIC Attached of Me and Some "Friends" lol So you can see who you're dealin' with lol

He attached a picture of himself seated in front of several kits...I now have to wonder how many of those he obtained honestly.

And here's where the red flags started going up...

HEY YA' Don, Listen Needed that Adress to send your M.O. again AND I needed to tell you first THANK YOU SO MUCH...Thanks Bud, OH and BTW Ship them the Cheapest Method Possible!! lol
JOHN aka LONFAN

Later...

DON, Sorry I'm JUST getting back to ya' we have been moving Boxes all weekend, BUT NOT TO WORRY, you see the Ansonia CT. Address is where I/we Currently Live BUT the 217 Robbins is where we're GONNA be living as of July 1st! So the Mrs. Had already filed a "Change Of Address" with the Post Office, It should kick in by the 30th of June, it may cause the Kits to be a little late Arriving BUT that's all. Meanwhile I'll send the $$ out to ya' on Friday IF that's okay? Hey I can't thank ya' enough...

Then, once he gets the kits, his B.S. really starts...

DON - The Kits were in PERFECT SHAPE! (I just got em Saturday I had to go to the Post Office to pick up my Mail until they know we're here (lol) Listen we (well the Mrs. Lol) Switched us over to a Cable Modem deal which has given us a new E-mail Address! And MOST important to you is I WILL send your Cash out on FRIDAY JULY 8th I swear to ya' I'm not Burning you! I can't thank you enough! We're still Unpacking stuff and I'm happy to say (SO FAR) my built ups made the trip just fine! Lol Well I gotta go check in at the other BB's BUT Again I will send that $$ out Friday (as a Money order US Postal Type) Thanks JOHN

Hi Ya' Don - Nah No Rip Off Here! Thanks for being patient though. . . Again I'll get your $$ out by Saturday (I cash Paycheck on Friday evening) So Don't worry. . .JOHN

And July 20 is the last I heard from him...

Don, Man I didn't get the Money Order out till Yesterday I shoulda' let you know. I'm Sorry BUT You should have it by Friday! Again sorry for the delay John

* * *

I have no real expectation that Lonfan has the integrity, the decency or the pride to pay the money HE OWES for items HE ADMITS TO HAVING RECEIVED. I even extended a grace period to him after his last email to me...I said if he was suddenly strapped for cash and couldn't pay me, I'm cool with that JUST LET ME KNOW. He hasn't...what's worse, here he is (on THIS board) wheeling and dealing like a happy little camper.

I post this as a warning to others: if you have, or plan to, buy or trade him for a PL Snake and Spiderman kit, THEY WERE NOT GIFTS, THEY ARE STOLEN. I HAVE THE STORE RECEIPTS PROVING I BOUGHT THEM, POSTAL RECEIPTS PROVING I SHIPPED THEM TO LONFAN, AND LONFAN'S EMAIL ADMITTING THE KITS WERE RECEIVED.

There is no more grace period to extend to this guy - he has NO EXCUSE for not contacting me, especially since he's quite active here after having ignore at least three follow-up emails from me. HE IS WITHOUT EXCUSE.

So this is the kind of guy some of you apparently feel comfortable doing business with. Maybe you aren't aware of his dirtbag ways. Maybe you do know and you don't care. But even if he hasn't ripped YOU off, Lonfan HAS ripped off others, not just me.

If you deal with Lonfan, you're dealing with a thief and a liar. If your conscience is any more vital and alive than his apparently is (isn't), SHUN HIM and BAN HIM from this board FOREVER.

Whether this really is LONFAN or not I can't say (don't know what to believe about anything he says), but this closeup is cropped from a 1 meg pic he sent which shows him seated in front of an impressive collection of about fifty kits (and that's just what the pic caught). I wonder, how many of those kits were obtained honestly?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/syme_1984/lonfan.jpg

So he's still doing this, eh? You'd think a little shame would kick in after getting caught so many times. Lonfan pulled much the same thing with me about two years ago, for a kit that cost roughly $10 total, counting shipping. Weeks of stonewalling and lies; he finally paid up when I tattled to the administrators of the board he'd contacted me through and they got involved.

Branch taught me that no matter how friendly you may think someone is by the tone of his postings, and no matter how many exchanges you've had through forums and e-mails, never, ever ship a kit without getting payment first. I suppose I should thank him for teaching me a little more about human nature.

I know about two other cases, one involving a bounced check, but I'll leave it to those individuals to speak for themselves as I wasn't directly involved.

Is there anyone reading this who has met him face to face? If so, and if you're willing to contact me, please do...I've got a few questions to ask. Thanks.

I made a deal with him that went without a hitch a couple of years ago. I don't know of any other problems people have had in the past with him, but maybe he is just a bit of a procrastinator. In other words, maybe his intentions are good, but maybe he is just a little lazy in getting round to buying the money orders. The fact that he's been communicating with you, Syme, gives me the impression he has intended to pay you from the start. Most deadbeats don't communicate at all, and then pretend they never heard from the other person.

It could also be that since he moved recently, his house is a mess and he's having a bit of trouble getting organized. Whatever the reason, I would suggest you give him the benefit of the doubt. It's such a small amount, I doubt he'd risk ruining his reputation on the boards over it. Not everyone is quick when it comes to dealing, although it is a nice quality to have if you want to build trust. The fact that you and Troutman2 have spoken up will probably make others think twice about making a deal with John. I'm sure when he sees this, he'll think hard about not taking action much sooner to close the deal.

Good luck! I hope John comes through in the end.

The thing is, though, Lonfan has stopped replying to e-mails to Syme. Oh, and if I gave the impression that this is the first I heard of this problem, I apologize because I actually found out about two weeks ago, when Syme posted a thread on another board describing his situation and I got in touch asking, "Are you taking about Lonfan, by any chance?" Syme has just taken his time to put together his case before posting this. There's a line to draw in which "procrastination" (which is bad enough when you're talking about other people's money) becomes something worse.

I got rid of all my communications from Lonfan the second I got paid, which was a few days after the administrators of the other board (people who apparently considered him a friend) piled on him. Now I wish I hadn't, because it was something to read and would prove everything Syme claims. I did my very best to give Lonfan the benefit of the doubt when he claimed the package didn't arrive but suddenly found that it did when he realized I had a tracking number and was about to file a formal complaint. I tried to believe him when he said the first money order was lost, then the second one (which was allegedly sent to my work address, just to be sure it wasn't a problem with my home delivery). I tried to believe him when he said he was just SOOOOO cash-strapped and his kids would go hungry if he had to send out a "third" money order. I tried to believe him when I told him I'd complained to the board's administrators, and he told me the money order had been mailed THAT VERY DAY. Then the money order finally arrived and the postdate was two days after what he'd sworn it would be. That's it, no more. He'd lied to me again and again and again, and he'd done it with such friendly enthusiasm that I let it slide too long. I would have let it go even longer, then I saw that he'd been in touch with someone else, setting up the purchase of a more expensive kit while he was still telling me he didn't have two pennies to rub together. Had people he'd known for years not gotten involved, I have no doubt that I would never have received a penny.

Like Syme, I went easy on him but never let him off the hook. When he said money orders were lost, I suggested he file a complaint with the post office and report the loss to the company that issued the money order. He never really responded to those suggestions, just complained again and again that he'd lost his money, that this loss mattered a lot to him, but swearing that I'd get paid just as soon as possible.

But you're right, the point is that others are now fairly warned and that's good. I just hope the other people who also have stories to tell log in here and share what they know.

"I made a deal with him that went without a hitch a couple of years ago."

That's great, but he chose to rip me off. Not being a smartass, just stating a fact.

"I don't know of any other problems people have had in the past with him,"

Don't know why they haven't posted their stories, but let me tell you that I've been BOMBED with basically the same story as mine, some going back YEARS. So even if they're a bunch of liars who are just out to slime Lonfan for no good reason (and I don't believe that's the case) the fact remains he's still ripped ME off and has stolen goods in his possession (unless he's swapped/sold them by now).

"but maybe he is just a bit of a procrastinator. In other words, maybe his intentions are good, but maybe he is just a little lazy in getting round to buying the money orders."

A little lazy? Are you serious? Even if that's all it was, why would you defend it? Here's a guy - one of five - who accepts an invitation to buy kits he can't get locally. Says "thanks" when they arrive, then swears up and down the money is in the mail. Then, nothing. FOR WEEKS. Then you see him posting elsewhere in the meantime. Don't know how you define "lazy" wherever you're from but around here that's not "lazy," that's "crooked."

"The fact that he's been communicating with you, Syme, gives me the impression he has intended to pay you from the start."

Excuse me, the correct phrase is "WAS communicating" with me, UNTIL I started to ask "You got the kits--so where is the money you owe me?" At that point -- get this, now -- at THAT point he goes ghost on me. As if he fell clean off the face of the planet, and remains that way to this day, as far as either of my inboxes are concerned.

Look, I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt and extending grace when its requested. Trust me, I am. But your impression is dead wrong, friend. One lie is all it takes to make a person a liar. Lonfan hasn't merely forgotten or not gotten around to replying to me...he has deliberatly CHOSEN not to do so. That makes him a scammer. Just because he didn't chump you doesn't prove he isn't. It means nothing, in fact, except that you got lucky.

"Most deadbeats don't communicate at all, and then pretend they never heard from the other person."

*sigh* That's exactly where I've been since July 20. Meanwhile, Lonfan has posted HERE as recently as THIS WEEK, if I'm reading his profile correctly. What would YOU make of that, in my place?

"It could also be that since he moved recently, his house is a mess and he's having a bit of trouble getting organized."

See last comment. Besides, even if that were the case (which it isn't, since he's still posting and wheeling n' dealing RIGHT HERE ON THIS BOARD as if he ain't got a care in the world), HE HASN'T PAID HIS OUTSTANDING DEBT TO ME and has IGNORED ME FOR THREE WEEKS. Yeah, he must be knee-deep in a busted sewer line and just can't afford to pay me OR take ONE MINUTE out of his busy, stay-at-home schedule to even email me. Right.

"Whatever the reason, I would suggest you give him the benefit of the doubt."

Been there. Done it. Got the receipts and the unanswered emails to prove it.

"It's such a small amount,"

Not to me.

"I doubt he'd risk ruining his reputation on the boards over it."

Well, doubt no more. A thief is a thief. The amount stolen is irrelevant. Unless/until he pays me, Lonfan is a thief and a liar, as his own emails prove.

"Not everyone is quick when it comes to dealing,"

THEN THEY SHOULDN'T BE DEALING. PROMPT SHIPMENT = PROMPT PAYMENT. Or it should. Let him try this stunt buying or selling on E-bay as many times as he's done it with guys on boards like this one. Where would he be? BANNED, that's where.

"although it is a nice quality to have if you want to build trust."

I'm in the choir, preacher. Since you know him, would you mind aiming that line at him, instead of at me? See, I already know all that, and damn well live by it. Lonfan doesn't.

"The fact that you and Troutman2"

...and others...

"have spoken up will probably make others think twice about making a deal with John."

Good.

"I'm sure when he sees this, he'll think hard about not taking action much sooner to close the deal."

If he had one-third the integrity you insist on attributing to him, I would have had my money weeks ago.

"Good luck! I hope John comes through in the end."

Nice thought. If he comes through I promise to let you know.

For what it's worth, I know of one other individual who'd be more than happy to share his story but I don't think he's a member here. Heck, I barely post here myself, I just wanted to back up Syme because he's simply in the right. However, that guy has posted his story elsewhere, minus names, and he sent a warning to me two years ago when he found out I had a deal with Lonfan in the works. Unfortunately, his advice to make sure I got paid and that the check cleared before shipping the kit came a day after I'd actually sent it.

Well I JUST GOT THIS INFO About the Lench Mob Commin' to String me up YES I BOUNCED A CHECK TO A GUY a COUPLE YEARS AGO BUT MEANWHILE LOOK AT THE RATING HERE I've made Deals with you Guys That went Fine (Trout Sorry You're Still Pissed BUT YOU DID GET YOUR CASH DID YOU NOT?) Well Meanwhile Try Readin This I posted on the Aurora BB And BTW thanks for the Compliments on my "Impressive Collection" ALL PAYED FOR HONESTLY BTW But I'll Let ya' read on:


Date: Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:48 am
Subject: The "DIRTBAG" Responds PERSONALLY branchbrood (http://profiles.yahoo.com/branchbrood)
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/notonline.gif Offline (ymsgr:sendIM?branchbrood)
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/ui/sendemail.gif Send Email (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AuroraModels/post?postID=DWbxFptiKQ8Tum4mOlDD5hY06xokNp27DwBNGF qU3cugApcBfWBGWTCNErUegYPzWpnLSLKVWqozwl_nw3jGbPmD m7nOJUsfsM1k2g)
It's 12;49 AM EST here in Ct. I've JUST reccived this Letter from one
of my Friends Replaying What you GENTLEMEN have been Savagely been
Saying about me. Well from what I gather here you Would prefer Blood
but Perhaps it's not to late to try some Reason NUMBER one Mr.
Iverson Likes NO ONE but his own Circle of Fans Which is NONE of my
business NOR do I give a damn about his opinion on this or ANY other
topic But he does have one of the MOST beautiful Websites on the Net!
NUMBER Two, These Stories Such as Mr. Powell's(It was a Toy Biz
Silver Surfer) the one thing he KINDA glossed over was that HE DID
RECCIVE his CASH (Although MUCH LATER THAN Agreeded Upon)..Well it
was a Money order actually and I gotta tell ya' (cause he was kind
enough NOT to) at one point I ACTUALLY sent him an Envelope
Containing the STUBS of TWO other Money Orders! this was an Accident
I Real Stupid Accident BUT the Real Money Order Came Immdeitly And
BTW no need to Point out my Crappy Spelling I'm Aware I just need to
Explain myself to All The Angray Villagers! Now Regarding Mr.
Oliver's Drac Box I couldn't Justify to my Wife Paying $10.00 Bucks
for an Empty Box! so I DID WRITE YOU EXPLAINING THAT "I WOULD'NT BE
ABLE TO PURCHASE BUT THANKS" It was An E-Mail I'll Find it for you
(And BTW I Also Got The Box From another Guy For JUST the COST Of
Postage No Offense)NOW Finally DON, I RECCIVED NOTHING MORE FROM YOU
AFTER YOUR LAST E MAIL The one which I RESPONDED THAT "I Was Sorry
But I'd Just Sent The $$ Out Later than I'd Told You" What was it A
Monday instead of a Friday SINCE I'd reccived NO more Notice from you
I only Assumed This ment You Got your M.O.! Now You Say You Sent Me
Another Letter (e-Mail) To "Give Me A Chance To Just Admitt Something
Had Come Up" Or To that effect,Meanwhile The ONLY POSSIBILTY I can
think of is (And Although You Will NOT believe me Anyway) My Wife
Could VERY WELL had Sent your Last "Pissed Off" Letter Off to
Cyberspace Ya' see I will try NOT to bore you but heres how it works
at My home...I watch the Kids During The Day and Work Nights, Thus
It's usually While my Infant is Napping and the older ones are
watchin' Sponge Bob that I do all my "Wheelin' And Dealin'" as you
put it IF you look at my Posts Elsewhere it's Usually EARLY in the
Day OR 2 O' Clock in the Morning when I'm on the Computer.So My Point
is It is my Wife that Is Up at 5:00am Reading E-mails and Usually
Just sending ALL the Letters Pertaining to Modeling (Such as this
Digest) over to MY OWN FOLDER Labeled "JOHN" (Makes Sense) Then the
rest of the Crap Such as Penis Enhancements or Ads for Swampland (The
REAL Con-Men! lol) She DELETES YOUR LAST LETTER DON,COULD and I say
COULD have been one of these! Now More Important to you is your CASH
(Understanable) I STILL HAVE YOUR ADRESS AND I CAN SEND YOU THE M.O
AGAIN REGISTERED MAIL IF THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE? BUT MEANWHILE
LEMMIE JUST SAY ONE LAST THING In the Pictures that I sent to you
they were Gotten AS FOLLOWS:
FLASH GORDON Screamin Vinyl Bought Scott@ Alternitive Images
MING " " " "
Vampirella Resin Private Deal Payed $100 Bucks
Pinhead (And Cenobites) Again Scott Hey he's Cheap on Screamin Kits
PLANET OF THE APES (Chuck Heston) Christmas Gift from Wife Purchased
From John At XO-Facto As well as "Mutant Leader"
Large McVey Frankenstein Purchased from Neil (Friend) from his OWN
Collection This and Two Mars Attacks Kits
Just about EVERYTHING Else I have was PURCHASED either from Hobby
Shops Personally Or from a Mr. T. Parker Or Skyhook Etc.Etc NONE
STOLEN I'm Affraid.(And I DO have the HONEST SAles Recpits as well)
Listen I understand You Being Pissed But The Name Calling is Just
uncalled for and as far as ANY Doubt as to my ACTUALLY "Moving And
Unpacking" When I told you I was...Well Surffice It to say I'm Still
Feeling the "Move" in my Lower Back So Trust me it was Real! Well I'd
Really like to get some sleep now But Don I WILL RESEND YOUR MONEY NO
LATER than TUESDAY I don't know what else you Want me to do? As far
as these Dozens of Other Disgruntled Folks All I can say is Please
Just Tell me How I was Supposed to have Wronged you and lets try to
Work this out.. Ban me if you must OH and BTW I REALLY don't feel ANY
of these Boards are important enough to try to return to by using a
fake Name! so not to worry LONFAN was Created by me Five years ago
and so LONFAN it shall Stay! lol I have seen people do that and it's
Petty and For What Purpose does it serve I ask Ya'? Oh VERY LAST THING
HOW HONEST IS THIS? HERE IS MY PHONE NUMBER PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CALL
ME AND DISCUSS THIS (You can reverse the Charges if you'd like) It's
JOHN BRANCH (203) 568-0403 Waterbury Ct. Please feel free to call
Even if ya' just wanna Unload on me I Don't care MAYBE then you'll
see that these Accustions and Threats of Psyical Harm or COMPLETELY
UNNESSARY! Well Thanks for readin' Hope I haven't Offended anybody
Too Much (Irish Or Otherwise! lol)And DON I'm TRULY SORRY about this
entire Situation
JOHN/LONFAN
I will Copy this over on the Hobbytalk BB Now

Well That's the Best I can Do For you Except to say The PICTURES ARE ME and My Kids and KITS! Again thanks for the Kind words from you "Impressive Collection" I like that. I never felt I was as good as you guys though. Listen I really got get to Bed now but All who Tried to give me the Benefit of the Doubt thanks.Oh and last thing Some fella's over on the Other BB Are Saying how Unusual it is that I always attach my Photos With the Heading "Here's Some Pics Of Me So You Know Who You're Dealin' With" Well I do this Because the one thing I really hate about the WWW is how Annomous Everybody is. I'm just tryin' to be Friendly,Sorry if that causes Some of you to Start thinkin' Conspiricy Theroies! lol I'm just a Regular Guy like you I swear! lol

JOHN/LONFAN No Assumed Name here!! lol

Lonfan,

I have received nothing in the mail from you.

You still have my address.

Just send me what you owe.

Registered is not necessary.

No cash. Money order. That way, if it's "lost" again, you have recourse with the P.O.

I'll be waiting. So will everyone else here, so I'll keep them posted on what happens.

Wow Goodmorning - Well I HOPE it's at LEAST a little Bit of a shock to ya' that I'm Sitting here Responding to your Most Nasty Postings PERSONALLY (Oh and Ya' Got me That WAS NOT My Picture BUT Rather A Candid Shot Of Actor Kevin Bacon!) Sorry but I was Too ashamed of my own apperance! lol I suppose it was guilt from trying to "Rip all These Folks Off" I suppose I've got no right to be Even the LEAST bit Offended by your Statments. That's Fine But I gotta Address ONE LITTLE THING You Wrote this,First You Pasted A Quote from me: "Thanks Bud, OH and BTW Ship them the Cheapest Method Possible!! lol" THIS Statement is what you said "And here's where the red flags started going up... Well I must Ask WHY would a Guy asking you to Send something using the CHEAPEST Method Be so Damned Suspious to you? I was Simply trying to go with the Most Economical Shipping Method so I could be SURE of Having your Money Order when I Promised. Yet I STILL wasn't able to get it out to you in the Agreed Time, All I can tell ya' is For this I'm sorry.Meanwhile as I've stated Earlier FEEL FREE TO CALL ME (And Since IT's Obvious you are as Financally Strapped As I Am Feel Free To Call Collect lol) Maybe If you Can Talk to me Directly You can Decide Perhaps you were just a wee bit harsh. But either way I Can Send your Bread out (AGAIN) this Afternoon And Listen I really Did Buy ALL the other Kits HONESTLY I can put you in touch with ALL the Guys I got them from NOT a Problem But Again I can't tell ya' how sorry I'am and I realize how bad this looks and YES I did have a couple of Deals Screw Up (MY FAULT) Prior to this BUT in the intrem You MUST have noticed I had gotten a Great rating here from other Deals I've made as A BUYER AND A SELLER! So please keep this in mind. Now I'm NOT running away from you BUT I MUST GO FEED MY little Creatures Breakfast! I'll Be back Discussing Models a lil' later By NO MEANS trying to Avoid ANYONE

JOHN/LONFAN

I did get my money. As I recall, it took about six weeks and I know for certain I had to get friends of yours involved, Lonfan. Had I bothered to save the evidence instead of ditching it ASAP so I could get the bad taste out of my mouth, I could easily have proven you dealt with me dishonestly. How many months later was it that your friends severed their ties to you?

I think I've said all I need to here and I regret that this had to be brought to Hobby Talk, but Syme's desire to spread the warning deserves to be supported. Everything I've posted is true and as nearly complete as I can reasonably make it. I accept that I should have been smarter in my dealings, but I'm also convinced that Lonfan stonewalled and lied to me to at least delay paying as long as possible, if not to escape payment altogether.

Well "My Friends" Are ALL the Same as they've been for the past 6 years! So I really don't know what youre refering to Unless you mean going to a Couple of A Holes like That Run Another of the BB's here (Never Friends of Mine) Anyhoo I'm Sorry you feel as you do. Think what you Want BUT I've always understood Actions Speak louder than words So Perhaps you should Give Syms a few days to reccive Payment,(Mind you I don't expect this to change your Opinion of me but AT LEAST you will have to admitt Perhaps I WAS Trying?)Meanwhile How bout Getting back to some of the Converstation we CAME HERE FOR? As for me I'll NOT be commenting Further on this Thread until Syms Alerts me that he got his Payment.
Good Day
JOHN/LONFAN

I've dealt with John(lonfan) in the past and I believe all went well...

Hey guys, sh*t happens and I don't think someone as well known as John would purposely screw a member for just $14... Usually it's a lurker and it's $140 bucks, but whatever...

Travis

Yet I STILL wasn't able to get it out to you in the Agreed Time, All I can tell ya' is For this I'm sorry.

That's all I ever wanted. That, and the money. When I get it, your apology will be accepted and you'll go back on my Christmas card list.

Look, John, sh*t happens. Things come up out of nowhere and blindside us, throwing everything off track. But I remain unconvinced that that was the case here.

You will admit, and pretty much HAVE admitted, that you have a track record of...um, how to put this...inefficiency, carelessness and inconsistency bordering on unreliability regarding some of your dealings, of which mine is only the most recent? Let's not play games here: that's you in a nutshell. I'm not trying to preach at you, scold you or rub your nose in this, but the plain truth is that you piled up excuse on top of hypothesis to explain why you failed to hold up your end of our deal on time, AND THAT happened only after I had to publicly goad you into it. Others may disagree but that really doesn't look good, dude.

And to blame your WIFE for it? Come on, man.

And before you keep on fishing for sympathy, don't forget that it was I who trusted YOU, not the other way around. Be as insulted as you want but given how everything happened - capping it with your repeated failure to respond to my repeated requests for payment during a period you were in contact with several others - you don't look very good on that account, either. So I cannot and will not be blamed for having believed what I wrote about you (and yes, I did believe it).

*deep breath*

THAT SAID, I will now choose to believe you did not actually intend to rip me off over less than $20 worth of plastic. I will believe that you were and are sincere. But I also believe - I KNOW - that you are so sloppy, thoughtless and careless in your dealings that NO ONE should EVER trust you for ANYTHING unless and until you have coughed up first, be it a kit in trade or cash for purchase. Now, that may make you giggle for having fooled me twice, or you may sigh with relief that I actually believe your heart. I can't know either way so I really don't care either way. My point has been made so I choose to believe as I do for the sake of everyone's relations on this and other boards. If we ever have reason to deal with each other again I think you know what the terms will be.

Will be looking for the m.o.

Wife's home with Taco Bell, bye.

E-NUFF ALREADY!!!!!!

You accept his apology, then continue to beat him up for a few more paragraphs. Time to get over it. Accepting an apology is just that.

I've been observing this whole debacle on both boards. It degenerated to such a ridiculous level that I chose to stay out. I had to jump in after reading that last salvo.

2 cents here. From now on, PAYMENT first and then ship out the product. Saves a lot on headaches and ibuprofen!...lol Seriously, It just makes more sense to do it that way. No money, No product. And you are free to keep the item availible and put a hold status on it. When payment is recieved, the sale os over. Just something my dad taught me when I was a wee little shaver. No nickle, No lemonade! :thumbsup:

E-NUFF ALREADY!!!!!!

You accept his apology, then continue to beat him up for a few more paragraphs. Time to get over it. Accepting an apology is just that.

I've been observing this whole debacle on both boards. It degenerated to such a ridiculous level that I chose to stay out. I had to jump in after reading that last salvo.

Thanks but that 2 cents really wasn't needed. First, if you read my post carefully you'd see his apology was accepted CONDITIONALLY. I'm still waiting for the proof ($$$) for the newfound trust I've placed in him. Second, my last post, which riled you so, was my next-to-last, to be followed by either (a) "Got the m.o." or (b) "Have not gotten the m.o." When that happens, that - as far as this and other boards are concerned - will be that. Third, I would have sent my comments to Lonfan privately but his email is so unreliable there's no way to know he'll ever see it. ;) Fourth, with all the baffling sympathy he kept getting in defense of his (at best) inept business dealings, I simply said what needed saying and planned to leave it at that. Still do.

Can we move on now?

I'll stand by my posting.

PLEEEEEEEEEEEESE PRETTY PLEASE can we move on now? Huh? Canwe? Canwe? Pyth? Huh? Please? Canwe? Come on, canwe? PLEEEEEEESE? Pretty please with styrene on top? PLEEEESE say we can drop it, have a group hug (as soon as I gets me money) and get on with gluing bits of plastic to other bits of plastic? Or resin, or balsa wood, whatever? Howboutit? Canwe? Huh?

Huh? Pyth? Canwe?

Just funnin' ya, Pyth. :tongue: :)

I don't see why you should be baffled. I've dealt with a lot of people over the past 10 years on-line. Not everyone is fast when it comes to making deals. However, the vast majority don't intend any malice. It may just be that person's personality just like there are some people who always arrive late at appointments. It may be a bit of a drag at times, but in the end....most people do come through. The solution to similar problems such as this one is to either restrain from dealing with the person again, or to get the payment in advance as the Capt mentioned. I hope everything works out okay.

My two cents. Syme, you are perfectly justified. You are the one who put out the money to purchase the kit and mail it, you have done your part in good faith. It's time for John to put his money where his mouth is and make good on the deal instead of making excuses. He ( and others who have backed him up ) has no justification for being upset at you - he hasn't lifted a finger to redeem himself. Syme, your conditional acceptance of John's apology is perfectly sound, rational thinking and extremely generous on your part.

I have no doubt that John's intentions are good... but, because of his really bad track record which has been revealed here, I'm not likely to ever conduct business with him. Believe me, I certainly understand that circumstances arise and finances sometimes have to be juggled - but, I don't enter into any agreements unless I'm able to follow through on my obligation in a timely manner.

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you"

What if the shoe were on the other foot? What if John had sent the money first and Syme still hadn't mailed out the kit? Anyone gonna stick up for Syme in that case?

- GJS

Anybody who doesn't hold up their end of a bargain risks being chastised by the other party. Luckily, we have a "Trader Rating" here at Hobby Talk that can be used expressly to warn others about problematic dealers and customers, as well as to show appreciation to those who have proven themselves to be trustworthy. I suggest we start using those ratings as much as possible in the future. It works fairly well on Ebay, so it should work well here.

No prob, Syme.

Like I said, I wasn't even gonna chime in on this one. I had just had enough of the whole thing and felt that Lonfan had been sufficiently lashed and beaten violently about the head.

In my nearly six years on the board, I've never seen anyone so shredded to bits without letup. I was relieved to see the "apology accepted" portion, then the rest kinda got under my skin. Hey, life's too short to get "riled up" as you put it. I wasn't then and I'm not now.

Happiness and light abound on the swap and sell board. I can hear the birds singing and a rainbow is forming over my monitor. Look! There's Oprah at my front door..and...and she's giving me a car! Roger Ebert gave me a thumbs up and Simon said that I can really sing!! Life is good.....damned good. Here on the Hobbytalk board and, gosh darn it, everywhere else, too.

Have I mentioned how much I hated "The Village?"

So he's still doing this, eh? You'd think a little shame would kick in after getting caught so many times. Lonfan pulled much the same thing with me about two years ago, for a kit that cost roughly $10 total, counting shipping. Weeks of stonewalling and lies; he finally paid up when I tattled to the administrators of the board he'd contacted me through and they got involved.

Branch taught me that no matter how friendly you may think someone is by the tone of his postings, and no matter how many exchanges you've had through forums and e-mails, never, ever ship a kit without getting payment first. I suppose I should thank him for teaching me a little more about human nature.

I know about two other cases, one involving a bounced check, but I'll leave it to those individuals to speak for themselves as I wasn't directly involved.

I gotta pipe up here. After reading this whole thread (and what a fun read!), it seems pretty clear to me that Lonfan is glad-handing like an insurance saleman, and lying up a storm. Poor excuses have been offered in an off-hand "Joe Casual" way (hell, he even drags his family into this mess in a shoddy attempt to gain sympathy), and if you just read betwen the lines, it's easy to see he's trying to come off like some little boy that did something bad, but you should like him for it just the same. Childish.

I would not care if it was $1.00 or $20.00 that this guy stole. Lonfan's "tall-tales" and excuses smell (to me, at least) QUITE a bit like something that falls out of the backside of a large farm animal. Then, spreading that fertilizer with the frequent use of "lol" and "ya" seems to be just another way to garner sympathy and an attempt to trivialize theft. Or at least a moderate attempt to get away with it.

"C'mon guys - who'd steal FOURTEEN BUCKS an' trash their rep, dude!" He did not say that, but, in my opinion, I believe it is the gist of his intent. Casual, cool theft. Maybe if I ignore it long enough it will go away. Sound familiar, anyone?

I run a retail business myself, and I see all kinds of folks, and this guy is just like others that will come in and attempt to screw me over, or be the first to complain about something, just to get themselves to be seen in a better light when they've done something wrong. That bit about the wife deleting email... reminds me of "the dog ate my homework" and such. Again, childish.

I recently had a home business customer whose computer was pretty much trashed with virus / spyware issues. I tried to be honest with her and told her she could pay me by the hour to TRY to remove / repair everything, but it would be a waste of money as the system was in pretty bad shape. I told her that, in my opinion, the best method would be to reformat the hard drive and reload her operating system. I asked her what she had backed up, as this procedure would involve erasing EVERYTHING on her hard drive. I even said it was like "taking a wet sponge to a chalkboard - ALL GONE" and made every effort to make sure she knew she was going to lose whatever she did not specifically TELL me to save (of course, she had NOTHING backed up). She then gave me a detailed list of documents and pictures, and informed me she wanted me to install ALL of her software (word, printer, scanner, etc.). I told her IN ADVANCE that it would run about 4 hours (at $60.00 / hour). She then said she also wanted me to spend an hour TEACHING her how to do some things on the computer when it was done. Oh -- and did I mention that I was to drop everything as she wanted it done in ONE DAY? Well, I did it. When all was said and done, she paid, and then called me when she got home and told me (GASP!!!) all her email addresses and messages were gone! I informed her she did not ASK me to save these, and I did not do it. Time is money on a job like this, and she's VERY tight with her money, and wanted to pay the LEAST possible. Then, she tells me her SON told her she could have purchased a new computer for what she paid me to fix her old one, and common sense should have told me to save her email stuff! I told her yes, she could have bought a new computer, but she still would have needed the instruction, and still would have needed her files backed up and transferred over to said new computer. Needless to say, she's still pissed. I sent her a nice email and told her to contact another business in town for future computer work (they charge $20.00 / hour MORE than what I charge) as I would not service her computer again. Petty. But, you live and learn. At least she did not put a stop-payment on the check ...

Enough of that -- back to my rant: Lonfan's attempt to be "big" about all of this and "come clean" is nothing more than continued attempts to come out of this looking like a "good guy" rather than the excuse maker that he is. There is no excuse, period. I think his behavior is disgusting.

Like has been said here, though, get your money up front, and you never have a problem like this.

This was fun -- let's do it again! I love a good e-fight! :)

--Henry

The <a href=http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-1606754-2202639 target=_blank>eBay</a><img src=http://www.awltovhc.com/image-1606754-2202639 width=1 height=1 border=0> system is flawed as well, and favours the SELLER. <a href=http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-1606754-2202639 target=_blank>eBay</a><img src=http://www.awltovhc.com/image-1606754-2202639 width=1 height=1 border=0> doesn't make money from buyers, only from sellers that list with them. How many times do you see a seller not give feedback until you've left yours? My stance is that the seller should leave feedback immediately on getting paid. If the buyer sends payment within the expected time, how can a seller not give positive feedback? This is what happened to me:

I asked CWGIFT (seller on <a href=http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-1606754-2202639 target=_blank>eBay</a><img src=http://www.awltovhc.com/image-1606754-2202639 width=1 height=1 border=0>) if the Joyride Series 1 Viper for auction was a true Series 1 because the recently released Blue Squad was put on a Series 1 card. He replied that it was a true Series 1. I placed my bid, won, and paid immediately with Paypal. At this point he should have placed +ve feedback. I received the Viper lightning fast (and realised that CWGIFT paid 1/3 the shipping he charged me, but that is another issue), but it was a BLUE SQUAD VIPER. I took digital pictures without opening the package to prove it was a blue squad. CWGIFT claimed "honest mistake", but when I right clicked his auction picture of the viper it came up named S2 . After 3 weeks of emails back and forth, was unable to settle with him.

CWGIFT wanted me to pay for return postage even though it was not my mistake. I got that "I don't trust that bugger feeling" so I didn't want to let the Viper out of my hands as it's all I had to bargin with.

My point is that CWGIFT didn't send me a Viper until I paid, so why should I return it until I got refunded. Trust must work both ways.

CWGIFT never once took me up on various options (splitting shipping, etc). After a while I got fed up and cut my losses leaving NEG FEEDBACK.

I received NEG FEEDBACK in return for making unsubtantaited demands. BEWARE.

He made the mistake, and refused to own up to it. Later he goes through <a href=http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-1606754-2202639 target=_blank>eBay</a><img src=http://www.awltovhc.com/image-1606754-2202639 width=1 height=1 border=0>'s square trade to try to get me to withdraw the Feedback. I copied Squaretrade in all the communication and stated that if CWGIFT had any intention of negotiating he had ample time.

The moral of the story is that I will not generally deal with anyone that I haven't dealt with before. This limits the amount of kits to buy, but I have better piece of mind. I generally only buy off the shelve or on-line with a "COMPANY"

P.S. His former listing was "Battlestar Galactica Viper *NEW*"

Now it is "Battlestar Galactica Blue Squadron Viper *NEW*"

and he lists about 1000 auctions a week. Tripling the shipping he is make a least $3000 a week on extra shipping. I'd hit the brakes if I saw a snake on the road, but..

I've got to Agree with Syme here...I dont think its a question of Money,more its a question of integrity.Not to mention the principle.

When I sell on eBay, I leave immediate feedback once I have received payment as a matter of policy. I've gotten burned once by a buyer who was completely unreasonable (and in my opinion - downright psychotic) and he left me two negative feedbacks on two separate auctions. This guy lasted about a month on eBay, doing the same thing to other sellers and eventually getting kicked off. I've sold a lot of kits on eBay and 98% of the time things go smoothly. I've also sold kits on this and other model boards and unfortunately have found that some other modelers take advantage of the implied "friendship" that exists because we happen to be fellow members. I accept that implied "friendship" until people start playing games - asking me to "hold" kits for them and then never replying to my emails, and the old "I'll pay you Thursday - oh sorry, I'll have it out on Tuesday - man, I swear I'll pay you by Friday just as soon as I cash my paycheck, .... then they become totally incommunicado. Meanwhile, many other members who might have been interested in the kits miss out because they believe the deal is done and don't come back to check the posting. It's dishonest, disrespectful, and unfriendly behavior. I've bought plenty of kits on eBay and on these boards too and I never make a deal with somebody unless I have the funds readily at hand. As a seller - I always ship the next day once I have received confirmed payment. As my grandaddy used to say - "You're only as good as your word". I would suggest that we all make use of the trader ratings here. They are the best record of someone's trustworthiness.

I'm amazed that anybody shipped a kit before getting paid! But after reading the whole thing I can understand why you did, Syme, and imho you've been pretty great about the whole deal. I'd be pissed too by this point. I like your post, John, and think you are funny guy, but think you and your buds are totally out of line ripping on Syme, just pay the guy, he did you a favor. All he's asking is that you do what you said you were going to do. I sell on eBay too and I'd be seriously pissed by this point.

And John, dude, those email excuses were lame about five minutes after ebay went online! At least come up with something novel,flesh eating bacteria, shark attack, Hunter S Thompson hacked my hard drive.....but at least be original :cool:

A large number count for posts can be misleading just like a 99.9% Positive Feedback.

As to shipping kits before payment. I once sent a payment for a kit and when I emailed saying that I included a shipping label (To ensure proper addressing) ...I was surprised to find that he had already shipped the kit. Trust in my post count and friendly online nature I guess. It took a long time before I received the kit because he copied the address incorrectly. We had to wait to the post office returned the kit and he resent it. Lucky for me that the address didn't exist when he lost the digit. If it had been delivered to that incorrect address and accepted. We would've both been accusing each other of being dishonest.

I try to minimize my people to people on-line purchases to kits that I can't get anywhere else. Risk vs reward you might say.

Remarkable read. Thanks to those who have shared their experiences and given me a head's up in some area. I ain't saying whose side I'm on but it is the RIGHT side.

Honesty is always the best policy-period.

Anybody who doesn't hold up their end of a bargain risks being chastised by the other party. Luckily, we have a "Trader Rating" here at Hobby Talk that can be used expressly to warn others about problematic dealers and customers, as well as to show appreciation to those who have proven themselves to be trustworthy. I suggest we start using those ratings as much as possible in the future. It works fairly well on <a href=http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-1606754-2202639 target=_blank>eBay</a><img src=http://www.awltovhc.com/image-1606754-2202639 width=1 height=1 border=0>, so it should work well here.


That is something I've been wondering about since I noticed it the other day. I know I can look this info up somewhere around here, but is the rating system totally voluntary on the seller's part? This question really has nothing to do with my current situation - really it doesn't - but if a deal happens, say, somewhere else or completely by email, can either party post something regarding the deal (good or bad) on this board, if the other party also manifests himself here? Say I buy a kit via a completely private deal. I might say "Great sale, fast ship" or "Problem, tried to resolve but have gotten nowhere, unsatisfied." Would that be allowed? I know you've got limits so how would that work?

Actually, it looks like you can - although I don't know if that was the intent when the trader rating system for this board was thought out.

I ran into this same problem few years back. Being a Law Enforcement Officer I went and discussed it with our local District Attorney(convenient that he lives right around the corner). Few hours later, a warrant was issued and faxed to the state the subject lived. When their LEO's went to the house and knocked on his door with an arrest warrant in hand he was glad to remit the money owed. I'm not saying to go to this extreme, but it's another avenue to explore. Check your states laws concerning internet fraud.

Now, that's my 2 cents worth!

I ran into this same problem few years back. Being a Law Enforcement Officer I went and discussed it with our local District Attorney(convenient that he lives right around the corner). Few hours later, a warrant was issued and faxed to the state the subject lived. When their LEO's went to the house and knocked on his door with an arrest warrant in hand he was glad to remit the money owed. I'm not saying to go to this extreme, but it's another avenue to explore. Check your states laws concerning internet fraud.

Now, that's my 2 cents worth!
its Good to have friends in High places!!! :thumbsup:

I guess the "SHORT VERSION" is don't do any business with LONFAN or his other aliases. Better for all sides. He won't look bad, the others won't be mad. A good lesson learned.

Ya' Know I'd said I wasn't gonna Say anything More on this Till You were Notified that Sym Got his Bread BUT I FEEL I MUST RESPOND TO Y3a's Comment "LONFAN or his other aliases." let me just tell ya' I've Been using the "LONFAN" Moniker since 1996 I thought it was Original BUT I found out from Sym JUST LAST NIGHT (That's right we've been in Contact off this bb So much for me avoiding anybody) But I digress I have NEVER bought or sold ANYTHING on e-bay but I did register there about a year ago. Anyhoo when I tried to use "LONFAN" I was told it was taken so I went to "LONFAN66" (66 being the year I was born) My Point is I'VE NEVER USED ANY ALIAS OTHER THAN THAT,ESPECIALLY NOT for the Purpose of Ripping Anyone off (Although Noone made that Accustion You DID sorta Imply that) IT's ALWAYS BEEN LONFAN As a matter of fact I find this whole "Secret Identity" thing kinda Stupid anyway!So Lemmie Make it Simple for ya' My Birth Name Is JOHN That is the ONLY other "Handle" I go under AND EVEN THEN I use LONFAN (How many Posts do you see where I Sign it as JOHN/LONFAN Well?) Now Sym's $$ is in the Mail (PRIORTY MAIL) AND I even Slipped him a little Extra For his Trouble So Now in his words "CAN WE MOVE ON? PRETTY PLEASE WITH STYRENE ON TOP?" lol OH LAST THING I JUST NOTICED PHIL MARLOWE- How dare you Knowing ONLYwhat has been written here about me OR this Situation have the Nerve to make a Comment like you did? (Even IF it was a little funny) I've had Conversations with you in Other Posts before you seemed more intelligent then that (And I'm NOT sure IF this is what you were talkin' about BUT My MRS. DID INFACT ERASE SYMS LAST LETTER TO ME I've since Restored it and well I know I'm Wastin' my Breath but JEZUS H. CHRIST How the Hell can you Basicly call me a Liar when you Just don't know? Ah F--k It! this whole thing is beneath me I just can't get over this Feel free to sit here an' wait till Sym tells ya' different Meanwhile Practice your Apology And btw This wasn't a deal made on e-bay

JOHN/LONFAN

Ya' Know I'd said I wasn't gonna Say anything More on this Till You were Notified that Sym Got his Bread BUT I FEEL I MUST RESPOND TO Y3a's Comment "LONFAN or his other aliases." ...

...Now Sym's $$ is in the Mail (PRIORTY MAIL) AND I even Slipped him a little Extra For his Trouble So Now in his words "CAN WE MOVE ON? PRETTY PLEASE WITH STYRENE ON TOP?" lol

JOHN/LONFAN

You know, there is no "lol" about this, man. You've lost all credibility. And all over $14.00 and change? What's wrong with you?

I seriously doubt you are "lol".


lol,


--Henry (g_xii) :)

This thread is a good read, as a few have stated already. But what I find most disturbing is THE BIZARRE USE of caps in CERTAIN messages. My eyes hurt already.

Lauren Oliver

". You've lost all credibility." Well g xii , It Won't be the First time! lol as Rick Nelson Sang "Ya' Can't Please Everyone...." lol Oh yeah and I'm Still Laughing Out Loud at how many have of you have nuthin' better to do. Well Enjoy yourselves I'm Done with this Crap just let em' know when you get the M.O okay Sym?

JOHN/LONFAN

PHIL MARLOWE- How dare you Knowing ONLYwhat has been written here about me OR this Situation have the Nerve to make a Comment like you did? (Even IF it was a little funny) I've had Conversations with you in Other Posts before you seemed more intelligent then that (And I'm NOT sure IF this is what you were talkin' about BUT My MRS. DID INFACT ERASE SYMS LAST LETTER TO ME I've since Restored it and well I know I'm Wastin' my Breath but JEZUS H. CHRIST How the Hell can you Basicly call me a Liar when you Just don't know? Ah F--k It! this whole thing is beneath me I just can't get over this Feel free to sit here an' wait till Sym tells ya' different Meanwhile Practice your Apology And btw This wasn't a deal made on e-bay

JOHN/LONFAN

John, ya big lug, read what I said slowly,after taking a deep breath. That "accidently deleted email" is the oldest excuse in the book, EVEN IF IT REALLY HAPPENED TO YOU!!!!!! EVEN IF IT WAS OFF EBAY. It's almost as old as the "I couldn't hear your orders, we musta had bad coms/reception" excuse that was first used about 20 minutes after Marconi invented the frigging radio. Whatever the real status of your honesty, even YOU got to ADMIT it's a TIRED excuse!

Ya knucklehead! :cool:

just let em' know when you get the M.O okay Sym?

Aye...

Now, Let's shake hands and be friends and post happy posts!...lol :thumbsup:

Soon as I gets me money.

So Syme, I would expect you to have a positive note in the trader rating by now?

This thread is a good read, as a few have stated already. But what I find most disturbing is THE BIZARRE USE of caps in CERTAIN messages. My eyes hurt already.

Lauren Oliver


SO NOBODY GLUED YOUR FINGERS TO THE KEYBOARD DID THEY!:D Come on it's all funny at this point


JOHN/LONFAN

So Syme, I would expect you to have a positive note in the trader rating by now?

Soon, acc. to Lonfan...

LONFAN posted a picture of himself
in the Photo Album so you know what he looks like...