ROAR Paved Oval Nats:
BMS,Tn 9/29/05-10/02/05


http://www.racebms.com/ (http://www.racebms.com/)




Here is the dates... I was wondering if anyone knows any info regarding the race...

What is the handout for stock going to be???

and does anyone have any baseline setups they can share..

also i attached a poll.. lets see how many are going, and what class your going to run...

How about an entry form?

Not to once again stir this pot, but I would really like to see some information soon on what the motor will be and if BL will be offered. If BMS waits until a week or 2 before the race to make those decisions I will for sure not be attending.

Motor will most likely be the handout Monster. That's what it was in 03. Not sure about the tires. They were greens and blue nets at the last one. Tires will probably be something very similar if not the same.

Bump.....

Burbs, what class do you plan to run and what chassis and I'll see if I can find someone to help ya out!

Lisa

Ill be running stock... Ill me on a maverick chassis.. ive been running it for a few months, and doing well with it.. I mainly just need a ballpark.. i had heard you guys run alot stiffer then anyone else.. Just so i can get somewhat of a jump start on building before i leave.. and thanks for the reply

simkins,go to the website posted in burbs first post,there has been some discussion with roar on things that Dale needs to finish up before a flyer can be made,most likely it will be the monster stock and handout tires in most all classes.

Burbs, Eric Hutkey would be the man to talk to. I don't know of anyone at BMS running a Maverick chassis, but Eric has great set ups for tons of tracks. Also, BMS doesn't normally run Stock during the year, but they'll start that class this coming weekend I think so after they test a tune a few times, the locals will probably have some clues about setting up for stock. At the BMS website, most any of those guys will help you with a starting place set up....ask for Tracy Lambe (Tracy339).

looks like it i going to be a great event.. also i have a question. when you say in 03 the handout was a monster.. are you talking a regular monster or the purple endbell like the snowbirds used.. This motor is epoxy balance, but not roar legal...

personally i love the motor.. guys up her have been running them and have been very fast.. i know arcor has aproved it, and we ran it at norrca nats.. anyone know for sure.. id be happy with a few of these to take home.. thanks

Man yeah....this is gonna be GREAT! Long drive, nice track, few broke chassis'.....What a man will do to have alittle bit of FUN...LOL

C-ya ALL there.

Most of us RAPTOR guys are going up for the Region 3 race as well.

Kenny@RAPTOR

i have a question. when you say in 03 the handout was a monster.. are you talking a regular monster or the purple endbell like the snowbirds used..

In '03, we used regular Green can Monsters.

Lisa mentioned my name above for a setup.
Anywhere but BMS, I was in the way there back in '03.
One thing I learned is to bring a solid chassis, a silder is out to lunch there especially in stock.

1/10 STock
1/10 19T
1/10 Modified ( no brushless)
1/12 19T

exact motor and tires will be posted this coming week!


Alternate class
1/10 1600 Spec w/ car bodies

bring your own motor and bats, ARCOR rules apply

Hope this helps some of you prepare

Dr Dale


Bummer. No BL means I'll be at home.

In '03, we used regular Green can Monsters.

Lisa mentioned my name above for a setup.
Anywhere but BMS, I was in the way there back in '03.
One thing I learned is to bring a solid chassis, a silder is out to lunch there especially in stock.

yeah eric, i remeber you telling me that once beffore... thats why i didnt email ya LOL...

has the entry been posted anywhere.. thanks

just posted at www.racebms.com

Seems to be a link problem.

Kenny@RAPTOR

Can't get it to work??

the site works, it just takes forever for the front page to load,, i have cable, and it takes a good 20-30 seconds

Hey guys the Nats link should work now. These confounded contractions for some reason it had a problem finding the file. It had a problem finding the file because I forgot to copy it to the server.:cool: As for the slow loading page, i'm not sure what is going on there the page is nothing but some javascript for the link buttons and highlight effects. The actual .pdf files themselves are going to take a little time to download but nothing I can do. .pdf's are cross platform independent and printer friendly but with a lot of over head. Sorry about all the trouble guess I just got in too big of a hurry to get the forms up the other night.

Don't worry 17Driver.... I'll twist the right screws to get it to work!!!

It works for me,thanks for the help!

I was shocked and amazed !!!!!!!!!!!!! $ 130.00 entry fee for stock for the ROAR PAVED OVAL NATIONALS. Although it comes with hand-out motor & tires, still a bit high. This hobby is getting out of hand. Luckily I don't have to pay for hotel and all other stuff. Organization such as ROAR should do something to keep the cost from escalating and will be out of reach of the casual racers that comprise the bulk of poeple that supports this hobby. Anyways......just my 2 cents

But then again....for BMS last hurrah.......I'll spoil myself and fork the 130 buckaroos to experience for the last time the best high-bank oval track in the country. :( :cry:

dont forget 30 bucks for the roar mebership..... 160.00 toatal.. but take 60 away for the tire cost, and its only 100. but yeah it is quite high.. Last year it was 110.00 whats with the 20 dollar increase...

The price keeps going up, the amount of racers keep going down.

I'm glad I make my own cars and own my own track. Atleast I can keep it cheaper in my local area.

Kenny@RAPTOR

You can also look at it this way....... 65 bucks or so for tires, normally youd pay 30-35 for a motor, It was 20$ cheaper last year probably because we didnt get a shirt.

65 tires
25 motor
10 shirt
=$100...... that means your paying $30 to use the track for an entire week..... if you go and play golf for an entire week tell me how much u spend, or rent a cabin to go fishing on a lake somewhere, snowboard or ski for a week...... my point is that the track isn't getting rich off of us, this hobby isn't cheap but no matter what ur hobby is, your going to be spending a good chunk of money. The entry fee looks huge at first, but in reality nobody is getting rich off of anybody and it isn't all that unreasonable.

But anywho, can't wait to get down there, I know there will be 5-8 guys from the Wisconsin area that will be down. Looking forward to seeing everyone again. Hopefully they'll be a great turnout.

Hays Jr

We could get rid of the handout tires...wait then you would spend a lot more on bringing your own and you have to pay full price for them.

We could get rid of the handout motors for stock, then you are using full price motors again.

The oval committee is always looking for ways to reduce costs for the racers, because we are racers and know how much it costs to race these things. The biggest thing that we lack is input from the average racers. I see a lot of bashing going on but I don't see very many people coming up with solutions.

I personally think that handout motors and tires really make the races cheaper and more competitive. I'm not a huge fan of the one tire rule but it's not about what I want or need it's what's best for the whole group.

If anyone would like to exchange thoughts on how to make ROAR and these bigger events better, drop me a line.

Danny Bartholomew
ROAR Oval Committee

No doubt about it...this hobby is not cheap any way you look at it. Anything new that hit the market is more expensive than the one it replaces...be it cars, batteries, chargers etc. Thats why we are not seing the increase of people joining in. Thats my point when I said that the governing bodies such as ROAR ARCOR etc should do something to make it accesible to newcomers to keep this from going down the drain like the slot cars do for example. The national races can be one of the places that something can be done for example. After all, this is where the manufacturers showcase their products and have their factory drivers shows up and be able to mingle with the fan/racers. If the manufacturers can subsidize the cost of going into these races. It will show the racers and hobbyist that they care a bit. But at the same time, I'm thankful for those manufacturers that donate products to be raffle at the races. I'm not trying to bash the organizing bodies at all. I just want to see if there is anything can be done to make it more affordable to get into the races. I stand to be corrected.

I would look at this cost two ways first, if a someone only races a few times outdoor then the cost will be a little overwhelming. But if someone races a lot outdoors, then the entry fee shouldn’t be any big deal since their getting about 100 bucks back in equipment that can be used later on.

Now on the other side of the coin, if they didn’t have hand out stuff how much would the average racer spent to find the right motor & tires? Most likely people will spend more then 100 bucks just for this race.

Now my issue is the late fee, $20 per entry, WOW that’s 40% extra!!! My feeling is that many people have to scrape together the funds to be able to attend these events. Thus, the funds needed may only be obtain at the last minute and certainly after the deadline. In my case, I don’t know if I am working that race weekend or not until the last minute. I would like to pre enter as many races as I can, but my job doesn’t allow for it. So my choices is to pay the high late fee which increases the overall cost to race or not go at all.

Maybe this is why we don’t have big turn outs for these national events….

I mentioned about the cost of a certain national event and got ripped to shreds for it this winter. I'm pleased to see that BMS has chosen a motor that isn't a throw away. that certainly helps keep the costs down. Yes there was a price increase this year, but please keep in mind that this year you are getting motors you can use again as opposed to throwing them away. That more than makes up for the price difference, especially if you buy the extra motors as most do.

Personally I don't think the tire rule benefits anyone. Most people who are going to attend a national cap tire race have plenty of caps they can run. Thanks to the internet we are all going to know what tire combos work at the track so no one should be surprised when they get there. If we could simply run the caps we have we'd all be able to show up with tires that are just right. Instead you spend 3/4 of your practice time doing voodoo BS to get the tires broken in just right and soft enough.

If you really wanted a worthwhile tire rule institute one at the carpet nats. It would be much more valuable there.

You forgot about the notell motel?? That runs $30/Hr plus $50-$100 for company, depending on what you want!!!

i disagree. there is 5-6 foam tire companies.. and all there tires are fast.. there is one cap tire company.. why would you want to put other companies who have sponsored drivers out of being able to run.. whats the point.. you cant say so and so tires wins nats... i disagree whith that totally...

I TOTALLY AGREE with not having handout tires. All that does is give the locals more of a head start than they already had. Newbies to the track, like myself, will have to break in the tires......then finally start setting the car up. When if you already new what tires to run, that info is commonly shared over the internet, you could do all the break-in process at your local track BEFORE you ever get there.

PLUS.....there is another radial tire out there. Majority of the people don't run it, for whatever reasons, but why single one out and not the other?

STOCK class should have some handout stuff, but when it comes to 19T and "OPEN" MOD, nothing should be handout ....... period. You will never get the field "equal". Some people are running stuff that you can't even begin to buy.

JUST BECAUSE IT LOOKS THE SAME DOESN'T MAKE IT THE SAME.

Kenny@RAPTOR

Just for the record:

I'll be there racing, wrecking, and smiling regardless! :)

Kenny@RAPTOR

your not running stock are you kenny LOL,, Just kidding... i was refering to the wrecking comment.. he he
]
the other tire out there is proly TM right??? When i was sponsored by TM, Tony told me He could not compete with BSR's so i should run BSR's.. Now i have to run BSR's :p

I think tire manufacturers should bid on supplying tires for a national event. I know there are only 2 manufacturers of capped tires and one is a little faster than the other but if everyone is on the same tires who cares. I mean who is really supposed to benefit from the hand out tire rule, the hobby shop or manufacturer? Hell no, the racer is the one to benifit from this rule so why not let them bid for it? Both companies build a quality product, both have belted and non belted tires. Both have several compounds. One is lighter and faster by a little bit but the other is much more durable and long lasting and will work @ BMS. I know this because I ran the stronger more durable tire there in NITRO and took 3rd with them @ a track I had never run on before and I sure ain't no hotshoe, lol. A set of tires supplied directly to the racers from the manufacturer with the lowest bid should cost no more than $40.00 a set even if 2 of the tires are net tires. That wat he would still make around what he usually does on a set of tires. With that said, why should the distributor and hobby shop owner profit from tires that you have to run? There should also be an 8 tire maximum at any particular event save breakage, in which case the tire would be taken back to the race director who deems the tire is either race damaged or defective from the factory in which case the tire is replaced either by purchase for breakage or warranty for defects. I know a lot of you owners out there would not agree with what i have just said but to me a national event is for racing, not gouging the racers. My favorite is when a promoter calls a bunch of manufacturers, gets a bunch of free stuff for race prizes and turns around and "SELLS" raffle tickets. What a scam! All of our race prizes recieved "free" from the manufacturer are raffled for "FREE" to the racers who get one ticket per class entered. There will however be a pay raffle for the new Hyperdrive Pro 3 @ the Southern 500 this year but I am buying the car from Hyperdrive for that purpose "no freebee" Tickets will be 5 bucks and you will only be able to buy a maximum of 3 tickets. I am not preaching to everyone on how to do things, I am just telling y'all how we do it. The handout tire idea is one of the best things I have seen for a national race in a long time and I hope it will always be that way, either with caps or foams.

I'm just saying handout tires does nothing to begin to make it equal or cheaper. Like said earlier, most people already have the tires to run, and they are already broke in. It just forces people to buy (more or less) another set even if they don't need it.

If they gonna go that far into it, why not handout batteries. Even up that playing field.

Kenny@RAPTOR

You can't break in tires at YOUR track,your track is Your track and this is BMS,totally different than any other track.Hopefully, this isn't the last hoorah for this track,at the rate we're losing tracks there won't be very many left this time next year.

I spent far less on tires last year at the ROAR Nats (handout tires) then I did this year at the Norrca Nats (BYO Tires)

The late fee is simply for saving the track a little money. Awards are so expensive that if you buy enough awards for what you think you will get for class turnouts and then one or more classes come up a little light, you just take a bath on the deal. My club spent about $2500 on really nice trophies for a road event last year, the year before we had 50 plus entries last year we had 13. It took almost the entire season and a hugely successful oval event in the spring to dig out of that hole. My guess would be that is have been more than 5 years since a track made money holding a ROAR national. The '99 nationals were highly attended for both paved and carpet.

IMO, the handout tire deal came along a little two late. When Mr. Vines still owned BSR we needed handouts because the quality was so bad and there were certain cap tires gurus that had bags of good tires that they had accumulated over the years. Now John and Kevin are making such good tires, they are flat, round and break in a lot better than the old stuff.

And honestly, with no offence toward TM's cap tires or Tony cause he's a great guy, you guys moan about having throw away handout motors, who wants 2 or 3 sets of throw away handout tires?

Yea, hand out motors are another can of worms all together, can't wait for all brushless! No matter what the promoter and/or organization tries to do they will never please everyone, ever. I think handout is best for all concerned. If you race on the carpet @ sandhills during a national event on hand out tires and you are from some small midwest bull ring carpet track, you still have tires you most likely will never run again. Same if you buy new tires to go run there. We ran on asphalt here in GA a while before we got a concrete track but we sure bought radials to go to the Whip with 500 other guys and race our butt's (tm) off. Then we carried them home and put them in ziplock bags and never really looked at them again. When we did finally get concret up here the tires from the whip wouldn't work here (too loose) so we bought what worked, that's racing. I know you guys that travel from one carpet track to another use different tires at probably half of them along with different tire dope set up's, what's the difference? You gotta pay to play, some racers are built to travel, some are not. There will always be that division it will never change.

What are the compounds and sizes of the tires.Since handout tires won't be available until Thursday per the entry form,I'll have to buy a set to practice on.There's the real expense buying an extra set at full retail just to practice.Not complaining,I already knew that I'd have to have a practice set.

probably 75 bucks give or take, any more and you are getting ripped.

What are the compounds and sizes of the tires.Since handout tires won't be available until Thursday per the entry form,I'll have to buy a set to practice on.There's the real expense buying an extra set at full retail just to practice.Not complaining,I already knew that I'd have to have a practice set.


In 03 they were S blues on the right L greens on the left. Most likely they will be the same unless they want to run a Silver on the right front for 19t and mod.


Daniel

From what I hear around the track at BMS..... tires,it will be 3 blues & 1 green(LR) of course BSR, they are one of the race sponsors, RM based (not UltraBird), "R" brushess, stock hand-outs for the Nats in Sept-Oct. Not set in stone yet but thats the concensus. :wave:

Echeconne, good post...
Well Danny, I know how much it cost to buy trophies. The track owners have to be really smart when they buying trophies. And more importantly, racers must understand that not everyone is going to get one. I have notice track owners buying too many trophies just a please people. This is where track hose themselves, more trophies, higher fees which doesn’t promote more turn out. My point is that I would think a track owner would accept a late entry versa no entry at all.

The only problem i see with handout tires is that 1 or 2 drivers get to set the compound,and the rest of us have to deal with whatever they get their chassis to work best on.They get several weeks to test and pick,whereas most of the rest of us get a day and a couple hrs.That's fair?.Like 1 racer said,blue fronts a pink left rear and green rr made his car good,while i ran the spec nats this yr. on my 03 nats tires[2 blue nets,green lefts] this is the only other time i ran these tires,been in a tube since then.Anyway you go it's not equalling the playing field,but i guess we deal with it and try to have fun. BTW,it's handout monster stocks.check the bms forum.

Alexaj46.....thats the premise behind the races. To promote the hobby not turn away potential racers. I will think a late entry is better than nothing at all and a late fee seems to scare away those people that has a short amount of time frame make it to the race. Anyways...only the top 3 after the A main gets a plaque(not trophy). And plaque does not cost as much as the trophy. Trophies doen ot have to be very ellaborate. They'll just gather dust on the garage shelves anyways !!!! Plaques can be easily display more prominent than trophies aswell. LMAO

Just thought I'd throw in my .02 cents. Handout tires DO make racing more EQUAL for everyone. Well broken in tires(run for a year), in the right hands, at MOST tracks, in MOST classes, will beat anything that you can break-in in three days. Examples: SPEC Nats at BMS, Marty Hillman TQ's Open Mod on his tires from 2 years ago, not on fresh tires from this year(and yes, I'm sure he has plenty in his scuff box because he races enought.) *Midwest Triclone, last years handout tires run all this summer, will out-run by almost 3 seconds any tires they started the summer fresh with(in 19turn and stock). Sure most cap racers have a box of good used tires from their local track, but what if you race at C&W in Ashville, where the tires of choice are pinks and reds, not blues and greens. Probably not going to have the right scuffs for BMS. Now you are forced in a couple days of practice to get a set of tires as worn out as the "fast locals" who have their blues and greens from 2 years ago broken in.
And all this doesn't take into consideration the fact that TEAM drivers may have the option of getting different tires than what is sold for production. Yes, there are still variables that can be changed in the tires build to make them FASTER. NOT neccessarily more durable, cheaper, longer lasting....but FASTER. Are you in the select group that would be considered for these???...probably not. Now, I will tell you straight out as an employee of BSR, that there is NO SUCH activity like I described currently happening for anyone or any race, but just bringing to light that the opportunity is there, if we really wanted to screw up the cap market!!LOL For me, being a northerner and having to go compete against guys on caps that run it all the time, the handout tire is the greatest equalizer ever!!
Sorry for rambling, that was more like .20cents worth!!

Well said Kevin!!! I agree 100%.