It must be tough when the mega-star of your gazillion dollar summer blockbuster decides to hold a testy debate on the the Today Show about psychiatric drugs, while appearing like nothing so much as a guy who had already ingested a mood altering substance or two.

As I pointed out in another thread, Nichole Kidman and Mimi Rogers must be laughing their butts off.

I fear that Tom Cruise is another one of those otherwise normal personalities that is slowly making the transition to weirdo.

He's not there yet but the trend is worrisome. We still think of him as a "young" star but this is a guy born during the Kennedy administration and he's knocking on the door of middle age.

Mimi Rogers was born in 1956. Nicole Kidman was born in 1967. Katie Holmes was born in 1978. Not only are his women getting younger, they are getting dramatically younger...11 years younger with each change. There is a growing "creepy" factor in Tom's public behaviour.

one word......Scientology(not that thats bad it just explains some of his views like what transpired with Matt Lauer} Cruise comes to town quite often around here.Clearwater Fl. is the headquarters of the Scientologists.We also see Travolta and Lisa Marie on occasion

I've never thought of Cruise as a great actor, but he was decent enough... I didn't have a strong opinion of him one way or another. But his behavior lately is growing beyond annoying. Almost to the point of J.Lo-ness: There's no great loss if he disappears off the face of the Earth. His little publicity stunt is just a desperate act by a man who's trying to deny his homosexuality. I mean, no sane hetero would divorce Mimi Rogers, Nicole Kidman or dump Penélope Cruz all in the same lifetime.

José

I fear that Tom Cruise is another one of those otherwise normal personalities that is slowly making the transition to weirdo..

Tom Cruise is one of the rare mega-celebrities to have been fired by his own publicist (Pat Kingsley), as opposed to the other way around. It is to this particular publicist's credit that the movie-going public ever regarded Cruise as a "normal personality" in the first place.

The question isn’t whether or not celebrities are “weird.”

They are.

The question is: How weird can a celebrity become (and for how long) before the public finally loses interest and moves on to another seemingly “normal” celebrity.

no sane hetero would divorce Mimi Rogers

José

Truer words were NEVER spoken!

Except for when he plays crazy (TAPS, part of COLOR OF MONEY), Cruise just flatout doesn't work for me. I walked out on THE FIRM and waited for an hour in 100 + degree weather because he was just boring the hell out of me with his shtick. I suppose there are stars in every generation who get by with a smile and little else, but how he stays on top ... I just don't get it.

I've always thought Cruise was "adequate" when he's playing a driven, focused character (Rain Man, Jerry Maguire, Collateral) - because he's basically playing himself. But take him outside that narrow hallway (Born on The Fourth of July, The Last Samurai, and especially Liquid Sky) and the man just can't do it. I don't know what's driving his public behavior these days - but I know that it's a bitch getting older. No matter who you are.

I mean, no sane hetero would divorce Mimi Rogers, Nicole Kidman or dump Penélope Cruz all in the same lifetime.

José

Amen Bro! Even at 50 Mimi still does it for me! Plus she always comes off as someone who'd be a blast to hang out, and a class act.

As far as Cruise as an actor, he's always seemed kinda woden to me though he works in stuff like Top Gun. Interestingly enough, I've always found his best and most convincing performance to be in Color of Money.

as to his choice in female companionship, i saw an online game called "name that beard!" you saw the facial hair without the face then were supposed to goess the person. the final picture showed a disembodied mustache AND a rather lovely young actress standing next to it. after your guess, the photo was completed and showed mustache and actress were attached to cruise. ahem!

anyway as to the whole scientology thing, its chicken and egg thing. is cruise becoming more of a flake because of it, or did he join because of his inherant flakiness? it tends to attract confused shallow egomaniacs, as well as other mentally twisted types (and then proceeds to nuture and exaggerate their neurosis!).

loved his rant against psychiatry. "this science is off base, but my religion has the real truth!" gee, he should have been a fundamentalist christian. (of course that would be far too mundane and "common masses" for a egocentris like him)

I loved Cruise calling Matt Lauer "glib".

Mr Pot, there's a Mr Kettle on line 1.

Cruise has gotten to be such a "movie star" that the "movie star" is all you see in the movie now. Last Samurai was a good film, except that I kept seeing Tom Cruise running around pretending to be this civil war guy. I never saw the character, I only saw modern day Tom Cruise dressed funny.

He's gotten so "big" it's become a detriment to the films he's in.

I've never thought of Cruise as a great actor, but he was decent enough... I didn't have a strong opinion of him one way or another. But his behavior lately is growing beyond annoying. Almost to the point of J.Lo-ness: There's no great loss if he disappears off the face of the Earth. His little publicity stunt is just a desperate act by a man who's trying to deny his homosexuality. I mean, no sane hetero would divorce Mimi Rogers, Nicole Kidman or dump Penélope Cruz all in the same lifetime.

José
So...banging just one of the above named women is hetro, but getting to bang all three plus Katie Holmes isn't? Have to explain that one to me.

What drives such passion in people against Cruise? Gay, straight, crazy, visionary?
Uh, actor, not Ghandi.

Heh heh...cruise....that's funny.

So...banging just one of the above named women is hetro, but getting to bang all three plus Katie Holmes isn't? Have to explain that one to me.

Something tels me he was just being funny. Humopr...something most folks should posses.

So...banging just one of the above named women is hetro, but getting to bang all three plus Katie Holmes isn't? Have to explain that one to me.

Well, not neccessaily hetero, but definately weird. I can see Mimi, Nichole, and Penelope, but I got shoes older than Katie Holmes, and Tom is older than me.

'Sides, from the "Backstage reaction shots" of her during the Today Show segment, she looks like the smart money bet in the "Next Celebrity Most likely to Pull a Julia Roberts" betting pool.

What drives such passion in people against Cruise?

Few things in this world are as entertaining and satisfying as watching a rich, smug, arrogant, judgmental, cloistered, over-indulged celebrity make a complete fool of himself in public. We Americans don't have a royal family to poke fun of; thank God we have movie stars.

I never did get the Royal fixation either. Must be me.....

So...banging just one of the above named women is hetro, but getting to bang all three plus Katie Holmes isn't? Have to explain that one to me.

I was trying to be funny, as iamweasel indicated.

But if you'd like to take a walk down psychology street, the underlying message I think is obvious. If he's gay, he isn't comfortable with himself enough to admit it. Consequently, he gets bored with these women as if they're the reason something's wrong, causing him to churn one beautiful woman after another. Any sane hetero man would be comfortable with having just either Mimi, Nicole or Penélope. I mean, ask any hetero man: If you were single, didn't know your current spouse and had a chance to be married to (insert any name above) for the rest of your life, would you do it?

FWIW, more likely his behavior is indicative that he's actually in denial about his age and he thinks the fountain of youth is going after younger and younger women. If he was comfortable with his own skin he'd be just as happy growing old with someone at his side.

José

The one flaw in Jose's logic could be that Mimi, Nicole and Penelope are flakes too. I'm pretty sure I would be happy getting to know Halle Berry, but as a partner for life?
Also-Men are programmed to be dogs. Once you've mated with a female, genetically, it's time to spread the seed elsewhere. I love that about me! :)

If ...he's gay, he isn't comfortable with himself enough to admit it.

Cruise's issue isn't psychological, it's financial.

Tom Cruise is a Leading Man whose box office appeal depends on his carefully-crafted motion picture persona, i.e. the Lady's Man/ Man's Man/ Everyman All-American Heterosexual Hero.

The thought of being outed and having your multi-million dollar career go up in smoke would make anyone uncomfortable.

exactly martin. cruises pereferences is one of hollywoods worst best kept secrets, and being outed would END his career. i cant think of another celeb who that would hurt more. other than the studios p.r. departments and the stars themselves, nobody said he was banging any of them. all 4 ladies stars are considerably higher then they were before "hooking up" with him. thats their compensation for going thru the charade.

by the way, wb hasnt signed holmes for the batman sequel, although they have signed all the other principals. apparently theyre a bit upset with her for going onto these talk shows and spouting "tom tom tom" instead of "batman batman batman".

This whole gay rumor started when a gay man claimed to have been his lover - he did this for big tabloid pay, mind - and Cruise sued him. Some said that showed Cruise was "covering up". :rolleyes:

You guys are missing a more obvious reason for his breakups - Scientology. He's completely lost his mind to it in a huge way, and he's looking for a woman who's weak-minded enough to fall for it the same way. I'm surprised no-one yet has mentioned the sequence of events that led to him finding Kate Holmes. She wasn't the first, he actually "auditioned" a number of very young starlets including Jessica Alba (some of this came from her own testimony). One of them he asked over to his house... she went thinking it was for a film role, and when she arrived all he could talk about was himself and Scientology. When he tried Alba, he asked her to dinner. A date - prriavte, she thought. He took her to the Scientology center in L.A., and she fouind out all that their people were invited so that she could spent the night getting the high-pressure sales pitch. She walked out.

Kate Holmes turned out to be the one he was looking for. Only a short time before she was saying how much her own Christian beliefs meant to her, and now she's saying how much sense Scientology makes to her...

Did you guys know that studio execs meeting to talk about marketing the film were obligated (don't ask me how - now that's star power!) to take a sales pitch/lecture tour over at teh Scientology center? And Cruise had a big Scientology tent set up on the studio lot. Why Spilelberg allowed this is something I'd like to know. His new publicist (his sister and another Scientology zombie) says they intend to do alot more of this, as mucha s possible.

About finding it "fun" to watch celebrities crash and burn...that's true of our society, and that's where I part from the crowd. I find it ugly and sad that so many of us feel that way. But Cruise, he's doing this all on his own. I actually kinda liked him onscreen, now I just want him to go away to some lonely island and not bother us again.

I gotta agree with Jeff on this one ( Hi Jeff !! ). I also liked alot of Toms' work, but the more whacko he gets, the less I want to see him perform.

Cruise has gotten to be such a "movie star" that the "movie star" is all you see in the movie now. Last Samurai was a good film, except that I kept seeing Tom Cruise running around pretending to be this civil war guy. I never saw the character, I only saw modern day Tom Cruise dressed funny.While I've never thought of Tom Cruise as a great actor, John has hit the nail on the head with his comments here. No matter what role he's playing, you never forget you're watching Tom Cruise. Some actors are able to disappear in a role (Jamie Foxx in "Ray" being one of the more recent performances that come to mind). But with Tom Cruise...yep, you're watching Tom Cruise.

... with Tom Cruise...yep, you're watching Tom Cruise.

Ditto John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, Julia Roberts, Robert Redford, Katherine Hepburn, Cary Grant, Jack Nicholson, Humphrey Bogart, Groucho Marx, etc.

Like the aforementioned, Tom Cruise is a MOVIE STAR (as opposed to a mere actor), and his persona follows him wherever he goes. These types of stars are usually smart enough -- or at least their handlers are smart enough -- to avoid parts which call for the actor to "disappear" inside a role.

In the case of "The Last Samurai", someone wasn't smart enough.

These guys have some funny Cruise animations and other rude stuff to see:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=260971&page=1&pp=50

Cruise was pretty good in "Collateral".

... or "Born on The Fourth of July" or "Liquid Sky". Gotta' disagree on Nicholson although I get what you're saying. He ain't "Jack" in "About Schmidt" or "The King of Marvin Gardens" for example. He is "Jack" in "Easy Rider", "Five Easy Pieces", "The Last Detail", "Carnal Knowledge", "Chinatown", and "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" as well but he somehow manages to become those characters in an immersive way that few actors ever get close to.

About finding it "fun" to watch celebrities crash and burn...that's true of our society, and that's where I part from the crowd. I find it ugly and sad that so many of us feel that way.

If that's directed at me I suggest you re-read my original post.

Making fun of a celebrity's pomposity and deriving joy from a celebrity's misfortune are two different things.

Tom Cruise is making a fool of himself, and I can't help but find it amusing. For Tom's sake, I hope a lot of people find it amusing. Maybe the collective snickering will penetrate the perimeter of slathering yes-men who've been shielding the poor sap from reality.

Tom Cruise is not OJ. Tom Cruise is not the Princess of Wales. Tom Cruise is not Michael Jackson. Tom Cruise is not a tragic figure (yet). Tom Cruise is a smug, outspoken, misinformed buffoon who needs to pull his head out and focus on making good movies before all the good moviemakers decide he's too big a pain-in-the-ass to work with.

( Hi Jeff !! )

:wave:


If that's directed at me I suggest you re-read my original post.

Making fun of a given celebrity and deriving joy from that celebrity's misfortune are two different things.



Forgive me if I've misread you, but when you say "thank god we have movie stars", it reads a good deal like "movie stars are deserving of derision by default". Many, many people feel exactly that, think that all actors are "rich, smug, arrogant, judgmental, cloistered, over-indulged", and I disagree with them strongly - never more so than now with certain political factions demonizing anyone associated with the entertainement industry. But if you meant that as a qualifier and not implying that all of them are so, then I agree it is good to see those particulars like Cruise fall of their own weighty egos. Your comment opened a door to mine, but it was more a lament at what I'm seeing in the pubic in general.

You make a distinction - a good one - with that next post that unfortunately I don't think most other people are making. There is a great love of tearing celebs off pedestals whether they deserve it or not, whether they are truly monsters or just buffoons...it all carries the same circus air of malice and delight.

Forgive me if I've misread you, but when you say "thank god we have movie stars", it reads a good deal like "movie stars are deserving of derision by default".

Oh, I wouldn't go that far. I hear Paul Newman is a very nice guy.

The problem for many big celebrities is that, after repeatedly being told how wonderful they are by fans, critics, and the numerous sycophants paid to stroke their fragile egos, they begin to believe their own press.

Modern movie stars are, by and large, treated like gods in America, enjoying a lifestyle that would have made Louis XIV dizzy with envy (like their royal counterparts, stars have an uncanny knack for committing capital crimes and getting away with it). What they can’t get away with is revealing the full extent of their delusional hysteria on Oprah.

Tom Cruise isn't the first celeb to confuse fame for enlightenment, and luckily he won't be the last. The world needs the occasional pompous-ass movie star to make fun of; it keeps the rest of them humble, and it keeps the rest of us on our toes (as in: “Thank God that’s not me screaming `You like me! You really like me!’ on national television”).

Call it cruel, call it ugly, call it mean-spirited, but when a sanctimonious bully like Tom Cruise uses a press junket to bash Brooke Shields, he's just asking for it.

At the end of the day Cruise’s biggest enemy is himself.

I would have to invest more than 30 seconds of watching Oprah or the Today show to see Mr. Cruises' antics. Personally, I don't value any celebrities opinion enough to grant them those 30 seconds. Again, that's just me.

I would have to invest more than 30 seconds of watching Oprah or the Today show to see Mr. Cruises' antics. Personally, I don't value any celebrities opinion enough to grant them those 30 seconds. Again, that's just me.


Yeah, and it's amazing what passes for a "celebrity" these days. I actually had a co-worker - a guy I like and respect - ask me if I was going to watch Katie Couric's hour long interview with the runaway bride and her idiot boyfriend. We are in deep trouble as a nation and as a culture.

Martin, I think we're pretty much on the same page (though I do think a dishearteningly huge number of people thrive on tearing down celebs for the sake of it, on any excuse they can find - real or created). Cruise, he's gone farther than merely obnoxious. When someone with that many fans looking up to him starts spreading unresearched and outrageous lies about psychiatry and urging people to stop taking their medication for serious problems like depression, he needs to be confronted as fast, as loudly, and as publicly as possible before he compounds the damage. And, yeah, I'm out there making jokes about him too...though it isn't really funny.


Call it cruel, call it ugly, call it mean-spirited, but when a sanctimonious bully like Tom Cruise uses a press junket to bash Brooke Shields, he's just asking for it.

At the end of the day Cruise’s biggest enemy is himself.


I don't (in his case and some others), he is, and again he is. Agreed all around.

I would have to invest more than 30 seconds of watching Oprah or the Today show to see Mr. Cruises' antics. Personally, I don't value any celebrities opinion enough to grant them those 30 seconds. Again, that's just me.

It's tempting to say you don't know what you're missing, but given the current media frenzy missing out on Tom Cruise's antics may not be humanly possible (unless of course you're Tom Cruise, who doesn't read newspapers, listen to the radio, or watch television). Come to think of it, maybe he knows something we don't. :)

I do know that he got into a tiff with another celebrity (Matt Lauer?)over drugs. As Austin Powers says- "That's about it".
I tend to take my news relatively seriously and use the local newspaper for local stuff and the Internet for global stuff. I shy away from the "Entertainment tonight" BS.

Rich, I shy away from that crap too (and the Runaway Bride nonevent, and as much other non-news as possible). It has been harder to avoid Cruise's antics, though, and to be fair the guy is now telling people not to take their medication. Medication for serious problems like severe depression. Given the number of people who for some reason idolze movie stars, I think that merits some attention.

I shy away from the "Entertainment tonight" BS.

I've worked in the film industry for over twenty years, and I've never watched an episode of "Entertainment Tonight." I've seen the odd segment here and there, but never the entire show. Ditto the other shows mentioned.

Truth be told, movie stars bore the crap out of me. I find the Cruise business fascinating because it's illustrative of how utterly removed from reality a person in the public eye can become. Given enough money and power a big celebrity can create his own reality, so why should he bother with ours?

Thanks to Cruise, the answer is fairly obvious.

:wave:




... with certain political factions demonizing anyone associated with the entertainement industry...

Most anyone can see how they act not just "Political Factions".

After all, Politics is show business for ugly people!

Oh, I wouldn't go that far. I hear Paul Newman is a very nice guy.

Others who remained "normal" people were Charles Bronsan, Lee Marvin and Robert Mitchum. Totally rejected the hollywood/celebrity scene. Would have been just as happy driving a truck if the pay was the same. Kurt Russell seems like a down to earth guy.

Others who remained "normal" people were Charles Bronsan, Lee Marvin and Robert Mitchum. Totally rejected the hollywood/celebrity scene. Would have been just as happy driving a truck if the pay was the same. Kurt Russell seems like a down to earth guy.

Marvin and Mitchum were also serious partiers which may have helped. A man's gotta have his priorities in the right place. They were also both very gifted actors who possessed serious gravitas. I liked Bronson too although he was more limited in his talents. They don't make guys like that anymore. Kurt comes closer than most.

I would have to invest more than 30 seconds of watching Oprah or the Today show to see Mr. Cruises' antics. Personally, I don't value any celebrities opinion enough to grant them those 30 seconds. Again, that's just me.

I didn't see those clips on Ophrah, ET or the Today Show, they were on CNBC and CNN every fifteen minutes however. Ditto for the looney tunes runaway bride and her even crazier fiancee', though I can understand the Couric-Lauer-CNBC connection.

Robert Mitchum dabbled in poetry, painting, and calypso music long before it was 'cool" to do such things, not to mention being busted for pot. Unlike today's celebs Mitchum did his sentence and said jail was "A lot like Palm Springs-but without the riff-raff". There's no modern day equivalent to guys like Mitchum or Bogart.

There's no modern day equivalent to guys like Mitchum or Bogart.

Amen.

You guys are missing a more obvious reason for his breakups - Scientology. He's completely lost his mind to it in a huge way, and he's looking for a woman who's weak-minded enough to fall for it the same way.

Kate Holmes turned out to be the one he was looking for. Only a short time before she was saying how much her own Christian beliefs meant to her, and now she's saying how much sense Scientology makes to her...

Katie Holmes isn't "weak-minded." She's merely the latest in a long line of ambitious young Hollywood starlets to have entered into a mutually beneficial business relationship with a powerful gay celebrity. Some may think I'm being cynical, but Faustian bargains of this type are as old as the industry itself.

Mark my words; the future Ms. Cruise is about to be offered roles she would never have been considered for prior to her association with her husband-to-be. I hope for her sake the roles are worth it.

Some people will do anything for fame.

Katie Holmes isn't "weak-minded."



Then she's doing an awfully good job giving that impression as part of her bargain. She was in talks for the role of Edie Sedgwick until she dropped it . Cruise advised her the role wasn't in line with Scientology's idea of a healthy role model so wasn't good for her image...:rolleyes: Hope she's getting parts good enough to make up for the ones she's losing.

How long will Cruise's power remain high now that he's become convinced that he can turn every movie into an opportunity to high-pressure all involved execs to convert, and has become a pr nightmare when it comes to selling the flicks?

Most of the time we don't realize how totally a star's public persona is crafted, maintained and manipulated by their publicists and agents. The Cruise situation is a rare but classic example of the "cat getting out of the bag". Chances are, Tom's been like this to one degree or another for years, but Pat Kingsley (one of the industry's leading publicists) has kept the lid on. Now that Kingsley is off the case and Tom's sister is handling his publicity chores....well let's just say that cannon is skidding all over the deck.

Then she's doing an awfully good job giving that impression as part of her bargain.

Hey, she's an actress.

Hope she's getting parts good enough to make up for the ones she's losing.

Time will tell, but she may have known something about the Sedgwick role we don't.

How long will Cruise's power remain high...

Good question. At the moment Cruise is one of the few stars in Hollywood who can open a movie. As long as that remains the case big shots like Steven Spielberg and Brad Gray will look the other way while he makes a fool of himself in the media.

No star lasts forever (remember Kevin Costner?), but I've got a hunch Cruise is going to be around a while. When all is said and done his business smarts outweigh his self-destructive chowderheadedness.

By the way, I've seen "War of the Worlds", and it's going to be huge.

For those who refuse to accept that Tom Cruise has fallen to the Dark Side, I offer up the following evidence...

http://www.zippyvideos.com/4018410466685.html

Oh no, it's Darth Maverickus!