You've got questions, comments, post them here ...

Now and then, I'll also personally post news and infos here so all TQ customers stay on top of the battery world.

IB3800

GREAT NEWS! My latest finding is that the IB3800 cells react really good to being deadshorted.

After weeks of bench testing, these cells had shown that the initial cycle was clearly the best one (voltage wise) and that the following cycles would only get close to the initial voltage output but would not surpass it. It was with undeadshorted packs and/or packs trayed before charging only.

I completed tests last week on deadshorted packs and they delivered more power than on their respective initial cycle. (voltage curve downloaded to pc's hyperterminal via GFX). The runtime was quite down from the initial cycle ... -35 to -40 at 35A ... but hey, most of the racers can live with 365+ seconds at 35A!!! The deadshorted packs delivered a voltage curve that was higher for the first 300 seconds when compared to their respective initial cycle. Average voltage gain was spectacular but I don't pay a whole lot of attention to the increased avg voltage since the curve is 35-40 seconds shorter on deadshorted packs versus undeadshorted packs. AIR showed no significant improvement versus the initial cycle. I guess high 8 and low 9 AIR on 4-cells is good enough anyway lol!

Very important also, is the fact that these cells warm up pretty easily and that they then require a lower voltage cutoff setting when compared to GP3300. I don't recommend a setting higher than 5mV per cell (.02 for 4c and .03 for 6c). Ideal pack temperature is still in the range of 140F at initial peak (as with the GP3300) ... this being at 70F room temperature ... we can settle for a delta of 70F on pack temperature at initial peak.

One last note, I got 5-10% of IB3800 cells from the initial production run leaking and venting during the final TM4-35 cycle. The leaking cells were put aside ... some really good cells in that group. I cycled a few packs from this group of cells and none showed a decrease or a negative effect from venting or leaking, so I'm not too worried about these cells venting or leaking.
(If any cells made it thru our inspection) I wouldn't worry about a few cells leaking or venting slightly near charge completion.

Steve Salvas
tqcells.com

First thing I asked Steve about was the cycling procedure..He suggested the following:

Peak 1
6 amps
.02 volt cutoff
120 second delay

Repeak
6 amps
.01 cutoff

35 amp discharge.


Eric H.
RIP/TQ Cells/ProtoForm/Finishline/PRS

How are these cells comparing to the 3700s? Voltage and AIR from both being deadshorted?

So these respond to dead shorting, the 3600's sure didn't like it.
Doug P

steve i think you supplied the racers with some very good inside info. thanks alot!
:)

Z-Main Loser ... I didn't match GP3700, but here's what an average deadshorted TQ IB3800 pack delivers on a GFX ... Labels: 422-1.171-2.2 ... cycles at (deadshorted): 4.84V at 120 second / 370 / 4.73 / 8.9 ... don't forget these numbers are at 35 Amps.

Mr.fastman ... you're right, IB3600 cells didn't like being deadshorted.

Katf1sh ... I'm an open book type of guy, if you can't share your findings you're not helping this hobby :)

Steve.

Now with batteries at 3800 would it be ''almost mandatory'' to have chargers like Turbo 30 or 35, supposing that even Milleniums and Pitbulls would have a harder time with these?

Would it still take around 35 minutes to charge these batteries?

Stephane Courchesne

Now with batteries at 3800 would it be ''almost mandatory'' to have chargers like Turbo 30 or 35, supposing that even Milleniums and Pitbulls would have a harder time with these?

Would it still take around 35 minutes to charge these batteries?

Stephane Courchesne

Raceman ... Please visit the tqcells website for the recommended chargers list ... milleniums and pit bulls work great with IB3800. Actually, any charger that allows user to set either voltage threshold or voltage cutoff is ok.

The charge time (at 6A) on deadshorted packs is around 2800 seconds (46.6 minutes) and 2550 seconds (42.5 minutes) on packs that are not deadshorted.

Steve.
tqcells.com

I got to run a 3800 pack for the first time Tuesday night in our club race...These packs are serious...First charge on a new pack outperformed my deadshorted 3300's...
Good enough for TQ by a lap...:thumbsup:

I can't wait to see how they run after deadshorting!!!

ps: I followed TQ's instructions to the letter and they were killer!!!
Thanks Steve!

Todd Putnam ... Way to go Todd!

Steve.
tqcells.com

Steve whats with the music on you site LOL

Bojo ... I don't know, I thought it'd be fun ... I like it ... don't you? "HIIIIIIGHWAAYY TO HELLL!"

Steve.
tqcells.com

IT's got a great beat, just like your batteries :thumbsup:

it is way cool keep it up steve:lol:

bojo and oldtimer ... Thank you for the nice words.

Steve.
tqcells.com

Just a little info...
I ran my 3800's this past weekend and liked them just fine, but what I have to share may mean something.
For 1 round of heats I forgot to charge my batteries, 20 minutes before the race I had to decide what to do, I decided to test them big time...I charged at 10 amps!!!
The pack finished with the same times as my 3300's and the other 3800 from eariler, here's the clincher I turned 10 laps up front that were .1 quicker than any other race.

I hated to take a great battery and subject it to torture, but it happens, so this was a great time to see the results.

Now the question is...Do you think I hurt them???

Later, Bret

Bret I charge my 3300 at 10 amps all the time .when I cycle them thy are the same or better then the lables. thy don't get that hot.

The Jet ... How was your car in that run versus the 2 earlier runs? Could it be that your car had more steering in that run? 0.1 second is huge on such a small track like Glennsfalls! To claim that higher charge amperage is the single reason you took 0.1 second off your lap times would be unheard of! Please redo the test next time out but the other way around ... 1st heat 10 Amps (with the 3800 pack you charged at 6 Amps last weekend) ... 2nd heat 6 Amps (with the 10 Amps 3800 pack) ... and then let us know if your car was again 0.1 faster (first 10 laps) in the "10 Amps" run.

bojo ... Charging at 10 Amps now and then (like, when you're late to your race) isn't going to kill the packs, it is simply not necessary. The packs will deliver proper power when charged at 6 Amps.

Steve.
tqcells.com

Never have charged at 10 unless late for a race.

Last summer I did charge 2 of my packs at 8 amps and the other 2 of my packs at 6 amps that I bought in May. All 4 packs held their cycle #'s for a long time. One pack that I charged at 8 amps was a 4.69 on the first cycle and still in September was still cycling out at 4.69

Only benefit I saw when logging the discharge curve was the higher charge rate seemed to take some of the voltage at the end of the curve and put it up front .
For instance I was logging 210 seconds of the curve (packs were 330 runtime and I came off with 120 seconds usually so that means I was using 210 sec of the pack).
I would see a .01 gain of voltage from 0-30 seconds and a loss of .01 from 180-210 seconds compared to a 6 amp charge.

Did I see it on the track - NOPE, so I went back to 6 amps and hoped they would last a bit longer.

Maybe the 3800's do like a higher rate...Jet lets see if Steve's experiment works!!

Eric H.
RIP/TQ/PRS/ProtoForm/Finishline

I ran the 3800's again last night, and witnessed a few things:

-The first charge on a brand new pack will get the cells warmer than 140 degrees, charging at 6 with a .02 on a GFX or using 15mV on a LRP. Typical temps were mid to high 150's, so keep an eye on them on their first charge.
This only happened on the packs that weren't trayed and deadshorted after assembling.

-The packs that I trayed and deadshorted right after I assembled them were fine, peaking at about 138-140 degrees.

-These packs already run better on the track than my best deadshorted 3300's in 6 cell stock.:thumbsup:

Todd Putnam
Putnam Propulsion
www.putnampropulsion.com
518-452-0422

Todd Putnam ... These cells can get pretty warm, that's for sure ... I wouldn't worry too much about getting the cells too hot while charging as long as they stay below 165F or so. The cells temperature will rise well above 155F at repeak. At initial peak they shall be close 140F and at repeak around 160F (with 2 minutes between initial charge and repeak).

Steve.
tqcells.com

Yea, I'm pretty sure the .1 for 10 laps came from the battery, because I left the car EXACTLY as it was, I didn't even take the motor out.

I'll try the 10amps charge with the same pack in an earlier round next time and see.

I shall let you know the results.

Later, Bret

The Jet ... instead of recharging the same pack at 10 Amps, try "1st heat 10 Amps (with the 3800 pack you charged at 6 Amps last weekend) ... 2nd heat 6 Amps (with the 10 Amps 3800 pack)" Let us know!

Thanks for the feedback!

Steve.
tqcells.com

Steve: Are the 3800's the same size as the 3300's? If not, could you mic one for me.....

Kenny@RAPTOR

Raptor_MS ... The IB3800 are slightly larger than the GP3300. Here are the IB3800 dimensions (they're ROAR legal size) ...

Diameter: 0.900" (22.86mm)
Length: 1.690" (42.93mm)

Steve.
tqcells.com

I am working on the CARNIVORE prototype, I'm going to make them available to fit the newer cells.

Thanks Steve!

Kenny@RAPTOR

Hello Mr Salvas,,,, I guess my question is why are these cells venting ?????? I have had a few sets of 3800 cells and so far I LOVE THEM but the company needs to correct the venting problem .Its not a problem for a savvy racer but newer guys may think that this is bad ...In my bench testing and track testing you do not need to BEAT these cells to get great results.....

I am still not fully convinced that deadshorting is the way to go with the the new 3800 we will see ???

Love to see others doing testing on these new cells......
Good Luck to you and the rest of your TEAM see ya in SEAFORD next week...

ROCKET

I see people have been picking up these 3800's.....Are you guys running them in mod..
my understanding is they will not be roar legal till Jan.06...is this correct or Am I wrong.......

Actually if you run ARCOR rules they are allowed in both 19T and Mod currently.

I run stock, So I run them in my practice heats.
Never hurts to test them so you gain the knowledge of what they like/dislike for when they are legal.

Here are some cycle results:
The new packs were cycled last week, then ran once, then cycled again this week after 5 days rest, 72 degree room.
I put a 3300 pack on there too for comparison to them

Pack 1 -
Cycle #1----Cycle #2
402 -----------399
4.67 ----------4.65
9.1 ------------9.2

Discharge Curve
5 sec -- 5.27
15 -- 5.13
30 -- 5.02
45 -- 4.94
60 -- 4.91
75 -- 4.89
90 -- 4.87
105 -- 4.84
120 -- 4.82
135 -- 4.80
150 -- 4.77
165 -- 4.75
180 -- 4.72
195 -- 4.69
210 -- 4.66

Pack 2
Cycle #1 ---Cycle #2 (after shorting)
405 ----------350
4.68 ---------4.74
8.9 -----------9.5

Discharge Curve (for comparison purposes the 2nd voltage number to the right is a 334, 4.71, 10.2 -- 3300mah pack)
-----IB3800 ----GP3300
5 -----5.25 ---- 5.30
15 ----5.15 ---- 5.12
30 ----5.05 ---- 4.97
45 --- 4.95 ---- 4.88
60 --- 4.90 ---- 4.83
75 --- 4.87 ---- 4.82
90 --- 4.86 ---- 4.81
105 -- 4.84 ---- 4.79
120 -- 4.82 ---- 4.77
135 -- 4.80 ---- 4.76
150 -- 4.78 ---- 4.74
165 -- 4.76 ---- 4.72
180 -- 4.73 ---- 4.70
195 -- 4.71 ---- 4.68
210 -- 4.69 ---- 4.66

When I cycled my 3300mah packs if the pack was 4.80 or above at my 210 average voltage calculation the packs rocked on the track.
The 4.72 3300 pack was a 4.84 at that calculation and
The 2 3800 packs were 4.87 and 4.88 (that's pretty big, LOL)

Steve: I just mic'd my 3300's and they are the same as you say the IB3800's are?????

Those measurements are with shrinkwrap on them.

Kenny@RAPTOR

SMROCKET ... Like you said Rocket ... once the "newer guys" try them out on the track, they'll LOVE THEM! I'm sure everybody will quick forget about the venting and hissing once they give them a run on the track. IB is working on solving the venting issue. Really, it is truly more of a matcher nightmare than a racer nightmare: All TM-35s need to be cleaned after each cycles ... as for the racers, I see no performance difference in the cells venting or not. Re: Deadshorting, so far so good! Se you in Seaford...

bud3738 ... That is true, they'll only be ROAR legal come Jan.1st ... but they're already IFMAR, ARCOR, etc. approved. All tracks shall accept them come September (indoor season)...

Raptor_MS ... My measurements were taken on virgin cells (no added shrink wrap). I guess you understand now they're pretty close to the GP3300.

Steve.
tqcells.com

OK Steve no more charging at 10 amps

Hey Steve , awesome 3800's and thanks for the order promptness .........Dave

OK Steve no more charging at 10 amps

I've found that charging your cells higher the 6.0 amps on the initial charge will increase the overall internal resistance on the battery pack.

Repeaking is fine as long as you do not over charge your cells this causes an increase in heat across the pack.
Always monitor the cells temperature.

Peace

Thanks RPM. Steve got my cells thank you

Steve and Eric, thanks for coming to the Custom Works race and for your door prizes you supplied. I hope you both and your other friend had as much fun as I didI know the mains were not kind to you but I hope that just drives you to come back next year for another shot at the $$$. Thanks again Bill

Auchterbologna - how did you fare at Seaford??

Eroctic, I qualified ninth overall which with the format they ran put me on the pole for the B-main. From there the top two finishers from the B bumped to the a-main in the ninth and tenth spot. Phil Marabella won the B and started ninth and I finished second which put me tenth. I had problems with my servo or servo saver in the first round and couldn't run it and it happened again in the main. I didn't even get one lap in and it stripped out in turn three. Man it was a fun race to bad you couldn't make it.

Are you going to the Mill this weekend?

sorry for the bad servo luck bill..wish I could make the Mill race but I am out of town this weekend...going to my Parents house for the long weekend.

Hey Bojo, I've tried to get the TQ Cells home page to come up to order some packs but get to the English/French choice and when I click English nothing happens. How do you order packs from TQ?

you can email Steve, he will take care of your needs.
tqcells@sympatico.ca
NICK

rctom243 ... When you click on "English" ... does the english menu appear at the bottom? If not, here's the link to the "buy IB3800 online":

http://www3.sympatico.ca/tqcells/BuyIB3800.htm

Bill Auchterlonie ... Bill, we all had a great time! It's now an annual visit in my rc travelling book!

Congratulations to Mike Valentine for his Seaford win in 19T! Mike sure knows how to deliver when it counts lol$$$! And hey, thank you for bringing TQ Cells its first IB3800 win!

The IB3800 packs we ran at Seaford REALLY ran strong, these cells are just plain awesome!

Steve.
tqcells.com

tom how did you make out .steve's link brings you to them. good luck with them thy are great cells

Steve How can I get your stuff can I get it from you guys.

Thanks Jason H. :thumbsup:

http://www.tqcells.com/

They accept paypal

Jason: We have TQ 3800's in stock as well...

great job mike v. It's about time you put some great cells in that new car. :devil: Hope to see you at Maximus again

A new shipment of fresh IB3800 cells is going out to Putnam this week ...

Steve.
tqcells.com

I cycled packs that have been deadshorted for a few weeks (ran at Seaford DE) ... voltage curves are better than ever ... deadshorting really works good with these IB3800 cells.

Steve.
tqcells.com