This is a free forum, but I thought maybe some of the Enterprise fans could talk amongst themselves. All several of them. :)

I have to say I wasn't that disappointed by the finale because I was so tickled that they built all those TNG sets. The sets are one of my favorite production aspects of the shows. So I was kind of distracted by that.

I thought the show had a nice idea that was somewhat flawed. I like aspects of it that lots of people don't. But I'd refine it a lot. Here's how I would have changed it:

It should have been two hours. With the dormancy of Trek for awhile, and the smaller number of episodes this season, Paramount should have splurged.

Part of the show could take place in the holodec, as it did, and part in the "present" ie the present of Enterprise. All the holodec stuff should have been mission specific, the kind of stuff officers include in their logs/after-action reports. The present stuff should have been all the personal scenes. All told, the Enterprise scenes should have made up 3/4 or more of the episode. All the time from an added hour could have gone towards that.

Riker's interest in their final mission should have been less....sketchy. I thought it was interesting, but not very believable. Enterprise-D could have been visiting Earth to celebrate a holiday, like Federation Day or Alliance Day or something. Riker and Troi could have toured the NX-01 in the museum they mentioned, then he goes back to the holodec to see their final mission.

The mission should have been something a lot more interesting and important, and Trip's death likewise more interesting and important.

The TNG portion should be wrapped up before the end. Archer's speech should have been shown, in the present, to feature the cast a last time as their real selves, and not simulations. Then end it with the three-Captain narration the way they did.

Why even keep the TNG stuff? Well, besides liking that they built those sets, I like how it places the show as a part of history, and brings focus away from the show ending, to the world within the show being part of a continuum. I think the way they did it was clumsy and unintentially insulting to some who don't like that idea to begin with. :)

And finally, either do the turbolift right or not at all! They could have replaced it with CG if building a good match was too difficult. What was that about?

Hi Richard,

After I chime in, there should only be a couple of other guys to put in their two cents worth!

My personal view is that Riker and Troi really shouldn't have been involved in the finale of Enterprise. I found it insulting, and before I could verbalize that as the show started my wife exclaimed in reference to Riker and Troi,

"what are they doing on the finale of Enterprise?"

If it were appropriate to bring in stars from another Trek series, I personally would much rather have seen Sulu and Chekov start the show off by discussing the events of Enterprise, Archer and the creation of the Federation over drinks in a bar or a starfleet officer's lounge. Perhaps just after they give a hard time to a rookie cadet named Archer, prompting the segue into the Enterprise story. The scene could then have flashed back to the past with an occasional narration by Sulu or Chekov at appropriate points in the story to heighten the tension. I think that would more appropriately have taken the thing full-circle by using charactors from the very first series to close out what may be the very last. And it would have avoided the accursed holodeck and replaced it with the best way to tell a story - one person talking to another!

And it could have ended by flashing forward with Sulu and Chekov asking the young cadet if he was related to the famous Johnathan Archer. The cadet would reply "No sir, just a coincidence I guess, no relation at all". Then you would show something like the young cadet later in his quarters looking back at a family album, flipping the pages until Captain Archer is seen. The cadet would then close the book and look to the stars, with determined resolve.

I don't get paid to write this stuff. But Berman and Braga get paid how much?

With respect to Trip's death, I suppose that you could argue that in real life a person's death may "just happen" and not involve something dramatic. But in the finale of a series, it really should be for a purpose. Trip's death was clumsy and pointless. I prefer to think that Riker muffed the holodeck program and confused Kelby with Trip. Why kill a favorite character for no point at the end of the series? It just pisses off the few loyal fans you have left.

Huzz

My take is that it could have been a cooler episode had it not been the finale. There was a lot I did like, but having it be the finale didn't seem right -- although that closing montage was great! If they hadn't had to shoehorn the death of a regular into the finale -- or if they had done that but had it not be the final episode, I would have liked it more. Another part of the problem was just that it didn't feel right to jump forward so many years, and it didn't seem right to end the series after four years. There was great stuff this season, but they had to give us a Reader's Digest version of some events to point to the birth of the Federation.

I guess I'm the only one who was okay with leaving Archer's speech to the imagination. Just didn't bother me, in retrospect.

Qapla'

SSB

Everyone knows I'm a fan.I was amazed they didn't show Archer's speech. The outrage over the finale is overshadowing a great job by all the actors in "Terra Prime". I saw fine performances by Billingsley, Linda Park, Jolene and Conner Trineer. I think I saw real emotion there. Lastly, I think that Scott Bakula did the best he could. I think at some point, the responsibilty of being Earth's first Starship captain was too much for any person. Every descision the guy made had intergalatic consequences and led to him struggling with that all of the time. The guy was overwhelmed with the burden. That's the way I see it.

PS-not too many of us left for this thread is there Huzz?

I didn't have a problem with not showing the speech either, but it ticked off so many people, so I put it in with my changes.

Honestly, I think a Sulu/Chekov thing would actually annoy more people than Riker/Troi. People had a hard enough time accepting this series and wanting to wish it away. Connecting it closer to TOS might put them over the edge. :)

Last night as I watched the final episode of Enterprise I was thinking to myself why did they bother with calling this episode "Enterprise" when it was clearly a ST:TNG continuation or add-on from the episode "Pegasus". And using Mr. Frakes who looked visably aged and out of shape compared to when "Pegasus" first aired, that was bad continuity on the part of the producers and B&B.
The preceding episode "Terra Prime" told more of the formation of the federation than the final episode ever did. and that it was a serious mistake to leave out the speech of Captain Archer at a keynote place in Federation history and after a long build up throughout the episode we the audience do get the payoff as to why it was part of required learning in the education system 100 years or so in the future that is kind of leaving out President Lincoln's "Gettysburg Address" just as he reaches the podium to deliver it.

AZbuilder
John Davis

I don't know why so many people are complaining about not showing the speech. What would that have added to the episode except length? And I really don't understand how this is really a TNG episode. The story is about the ENTERPRISE characters. The Riker-Troi stuff is just an elaborate version of a flashback. It is a perfectly valid device. I've never seen people complain that CITIZEN KANE focuses too much on the reporter investigating his life.

That is not to defend the episode. I do agree that it was a disappointment, with a weak, poorly developed plot. And they did screw up Trip's death. It certainly wasn't worthy of the final episode.

One thing that bothered me which no one else has mentioned: They jumped six years into the future with this episode, and what has changed on the NX-01? Trip and T'pol had broken up, and Hoshi's changed her hairstyle. Everyone else is pretty much the same character in the same position. There were more changes in the last two years than in the six years between the last two episodes.

Richard, perhaps you are right. I didn't like the idea of TNG stars on the finale of Enterprise but for some reason, Sulu and Chekov appealed to me.

Rich - I really enjoyed Terra Prime. Nice FX while chasing the comet! Someone on one of the other threads mentioned that Trip was overacting when mourning the loss of the baby. Perhaps, and perhaps not. Anyone who has held their first born child in their arms for the first time will understand the bond that develops, especially if there are worries about health issues.

You might think this weird, but I turned on the lights in my little Bandai NX-01 when I sat down to watch this. My own personal homage I suppose to the effort put in by the folks working on Enterprise. Just as "These are the Voyages" began, the batteries in it died and the lights went out.

Huzz

I agree with most of your beefs with the final episode. It was weak. The show went out with a wimper of a wimper and not the bang that the fan's deserved. Not showing Archer's speech shortchanged us because in the years previous the writers built it up as being crucial to the birth of the Federation. That Riker and Troi would stop the "movie" before the end strikes me as disrespectful.

As for the gap in time between the Terra Prime incident and the last "mission", I saw it as a blatant attempt by the writers - and possibly B&B - to leave the series open for a possible future movie or resumption of the series itself.
The years between TP and the last episode would certainly allow for a few years' worth of new episodes...

-Leelan

You know, that whole buildup-buildup/fade to black with the speech is actually used fairly often. I've seen West Wing use it a number of times as everyone in the White House prepares for some important moment, like maybe a speech or something, and it ends with Bartlett walking out to applause....and no speech. Seen it on other shows. It's a choice, but they didn't do it very good here. Riker just turning the program off kind of spoiled it.

Was that a Sideshow Frankenstein in Tripp's quarters? Looked like it, minus the base and chains.

Although I thought the whole premise for the episode was great, it shouldn't have been the final episode. I expected more of a stage-setting "Birth of the Federation" episode. One that leaves you knowing that the road to the future is laid out.

Trips' death was so untypical of Enterprise - he would have found away around the situation without killing himself. And it sort of kills off any idea of getting him in any movie that might get made (like that's going to happen).

Jim

I think I can completely understand why the cast would have felt rather disgruntled. Like it or not, like the acting or not, I think it's fair to see they invested of themselves heavily in the show and, as a rule, tried to do their best. This season was the best yet with some strong episodes! However, the actors find out about the cancellation. Later, they find that their characters have essentially become supporting characters for some TNG actors in the final episodes. Wow. What a great send-off.

Of course, the true geeks (I mean that in the best possible sense) knew right away that Bakula and company are playing mere compueter generated re-creations of their characters. This could have been an all right episode if it hadn't been the finale. And if the Shran storyline hadn't been so uninspired. And if Riker hadn't played "Chef." And if they hadn't had to resort to using the holodeck. And if Tripp hadn't died because Shran, somewhere along the line, had clearly taken up with the wrong crowd (or if Archer had simply not agreed to go along with his plan). And if Riker and Troi were, shall we say, in a little better shape. Sigh. Other than the CG shots of the D, and more NX-01 shots, and hearing Kirk's voice in a new episode this was the worst finale ever. Probably even worse than TOS's "Turnabout Intruder." Well, maybe not that bad. I would have hoped for a better send off for this show. Any vestages of hope I had that B and B might be able to pull something off are gone. And they should be too. They just don't get it. I doubt they ever did!

You know, that whole buildup-buildup/fade to black with the speech is actually used fairly often. I've seen West Wing use it a number of times as everyone in the White House prepares for some important moment, like maybe a speech or something, and it ends with Bartlett walking out to applause....and no speech. Seen it on other shows. It's a choice, but they didn't do it very good here. Riker just turning the program off kind of spoiled it.

There is a very good reason for this. Speeches, for the most part, are dramatically dead. Drama is conflict. It is about give and take, unexpected developments, increasing tension. Speeches for the most part are exposition, especially in a case like this where it is simply a dedication ceremony. So what we would have is him reviewing the events leading up to the event and praising everyone involved. Do you really want the last ten minutes of the last episode of the series to be that?

As I was writing this, I just thought of an alternate way to do this episode and include the speech. Start with Archer preparing to give the speech, talking to T'Pol. Maybe they mention how they wish Trip could have been there. Have him go out and give his speech and use that as the framing device. Keep cutting between the speech and the events leading up to it.

Of course, that still wouldn't have solved most of the problems with the episode.

The could have shown the end of the speech that sums everything up.

I think Frakes and Sirtis can be forgiven for being a little dumpy. I got over it. Just don't play this and the Pegasus episode back to back! But it was great to see those uniforms again. They really annoyed me in Generations with the costume changes, and I'm not a huge fan of the gray ones that came after.

Well I'm sorry I jumped into this so late,But I just have ONE opinion about Last Friday's Fiasco,Uh sorry I meant Finale lol.I prefer to consider the First Episode that aired (The one with Peter Weller) as the better "Send Off" for the Cast of Enterprise,Just my Opinion here but the Speech Archer made to the room of beings that would Become Starfleet,was just beautiful even inspiring. I was turly moved by that Scene and isn't this the Episode that Included the Voice-Overs and ALL the Different Ships? To be honest I recorded the Entire evening but only watched the First half. I thought I noticed the Ships But I had to watch in Mute Cause the Wife was on a Biz Call! Doesn't sound like I missed much though lol I Did hear the Speech and I did Enjoy that Entire bit.But I've yet to watch the Riker/Troi Ep But I DID see that My Honey Troi is lookin' a little rough!
JUST MY TWO BITS
JOHN/LONFAN

I was struck by the the last 2 scenes with Riker and Troi in the episode.

Troi says, "So, I guess we're done here." The holodeck deactivates, and they leave.

This episode could have been, should have been epic, dramatic, nostalgic, inspiring.

What we got - The equivalent of the head of Paramount opening the stage door, sticking his head in and telling the people inside "Wrap it up, guys. We're locking the doors and turning out the lights in 2 minutes."

Jolene Blalock was right - it was appalling.

You can see Berman and Braga tried copying the final episode of "From the Earth to the Moon." The making of the George Melies silent movie of the same name was contrasted with the last lunar flight, Apollo 17. The final show of FTETTM also featured interviews with the characters that were portrayed during the entire run of the series as they worked on the Apollo Program as they would have appeared in the present day. I think that if they did the same thing for this episode - have the major characters from all the Trek series interviewed and questioned what their point of view was regarding the NX-01 and crew and their place in Trek History, in a documentary style - that would have been interesting. If there were ever a time where Paramount should have gotten out the checkbook and paid for a fitting send off for the Star Trek franchise for a while, this was it.

So NOT to veer off Topic but - Could ya' refresh my Memory as to Which Ep "Pegasus" was? Was it that one where the 1701D rescues Kelsey Grammar and his Crew from some kind of Time Warp he'd been stuck in for IIRC Forty Years? If so I liked that Episode. Remember they kept doing the SAME stuff Over and Over and it Always ended with the Ship being Torn apart,Which one was that?
Sorry Please continue lol
JOHN/LONFAN

That was Cause and Effect. I forget the name of the Pegasus episode, but it's the one where Riker's old Captain wants him to help retrieve a secret experimental cloak still on their previous ship.

I forget the name of the Pegasus episode, but it's the one where Riker's old Captain wants him to help retrieve a secret experimental cloak still on their previous ship.The name of that episode was (get ready!) "The Pegasus." Riker's old commanding officer was named "Pressman," if I remember correctly, and the character was played by Terry O'Quinn -- who is currently on an island somewhere, trying to open a certain mysterious hatch on ABC's Lost as former parapalegic John Locke.

Qapla'

SSB

IIRC, the Pegasus one is where they find the ship (an Oberth class, like the Grissom from ST:III) stuck half in a cave inside an asteroid (it "phased" in partially inside the asteroid).

"What we got - The equivalent of the head of Paramount opening the stage door, sticking his head in and telling the people inside "Wrap it up, guys. We're locking the doors and turning out the lights in 2 minutes."

Reminds me of the old Saturday Night Live sketch with Belushi as Kirk. In the middle of a mission a TV crew start taking apart the set and pull off Spocks ears.

"What we got - The equivalent of the head of Paramount opening the stage door, sticking his head in and telling the people inside "Wrap it up, guys. We're locking the doors and turning out the lights in 2 minutes."

Reminds me of the old Saturday Night Live sketch with Belushi as Kirk. In the middle of a mission a TV crew start taking apart the set and pull off Spocks ears.


Yes - I remembered that sketch, too. Very apropos.

"Probably even worse than TOS's "Turnabout Intruder." Well, maybe not that bad." Specter of the gun and the gawd aweful Spock's brain were on par with watching trips death. just painful to watch. not sad, just stupid for no reason. IMHO

Remember, Spock's Brain was an intentional joke.

What about the midget riding bareback on Kirk? That was intentional too?
Remember, Spock's Brain was an intentional joke.

Just watch out!
When Locke DOES finally get that hatch open on "Lost", he's going to drop right down onto a starship bridge, and warp the whole damned cast of refugees off the island! Well, either that, or find Gilligan and the Skippers' corpses down there.........lololol

What about the midget riding bareback on Kirk? That was intentional too?

No, that was just stupid. :lol:

Enterprise died like it lived: a poor plot, a gimmick (holodeck), a little time travel and writing that took the characters out of themselves.

José