In November 2004 I ordered some stuff at team-paradigm for 148 $. I wanted to pay via my credit card. After some weeks I asked when I will get the stuff – team-paradigm told me that there is a problem with my credit card. The said it is declinded. I checked my account – more than 3000 $ in the account. My credit card was never declined!
I said ok, if there is a problem I will pay with paypal. The 148 $ arrived at team-paradigm at the 6th of januar 2005. Since this time I´m waiting for the stuff or to get my money back… Nothing happens. I asked them many times what is going on. Team-paradigm told me sometimes they are checking there system – but they can´t find my money… Must be a joke!

I asked somebody else, if he knows Brandon Rohde-the owner of team-paradigm- and if he can help me… This person asked Brandon what´s going on with my stuff and got a mail from him. Brandon said: “This costumer was a pain! We tried 4 credit cards of this costumer – every card was declined… I build 4 motors for him, now he doesn´t want to pay!”

What a serios businessman… what a serios shop… Shame on you!

Brandon: Stop lieing! I have only one credit card! This card never was – is – or will be declined! I never ordered any motor from you!
Brandon, shame on you and your shop! You don´t want to sent my stuff – you don´t want to pay my money back! You are stealing my money – this 148 $!!! Shame on you!
I´m an idiot that I trusted you and didn´t call paypal earlier. But you – you are the pain in my ass and not a serios businessman! Next time I visit USA I will visit you to talk to you face to face… And trust me: I would get my money if would meet you… I want to see this man who has stolen my money…. Shame on you!!!

Ops, I forgot: It seems that Brandon likes this behaviour… The guy I asked stopped his business with Brandon Rohde and team-paradigm…

Sir,

I don't know you or Brandon Rhode (sp?) very well. However, I was at the 2004 Stock Offroad Nationals and the guys from Team Paradigm were very nice - they would cut your motors for free and even game me free brushes. The bad guy who helped me the most was in fact Brandon. He never stole my motor(s), treated anyone I meet poorly or asked for a cent of my money. Now I do understand that you upset over the money, but have you sent a credit card statement to them showing this charge? I'm sure if you are reasonable and can prove you were charged they will help you out.

Once again, I base my opinion on what I experienced from meeting the employees of this company at the track (now 2-3 times) and talking to them. I would be very shocked if this is truly how they conducted their business...

BigA

Gerhard,

We have communicated through email numerous times, and it seems to get no where. When all you do is try to flame our company or me personally, I honestly see no further reason to respond. I will however, make a deal with you. If you can provide me with a copy of your credit card statement showing that you were charged, I will give you a sincere appology, refund your card, and still send you your order in full at no charge.

I will admit that mistakes can happen, that is innevitable. However when I look back at our credit card charge logs that we keep very good records of, it shows that we tried more than one card from you, all of which were denied.

As for what you posted about what I said above, that is untrue. I responded saying that this order had been a big mess and was very confusing, but never did I post any negative comments about you personally.

If you have had a bad experience with us, then I will appologize for that. But as with any business, we cannot refund your card for something that was not paid for. Again though, if you can prove me wrong, I will hold up my end of the deal and refund your card and still ship your order.

-Brandon Rohde

Now that is customer service at it's finest!

UMS,

As a satisfied Team Paradigm customer I can tell you your story is definitely the exception ... just send Brandon a copy of your credit card or Paypal statement showing the charges, I'm sure he'll hold up his end of the deal if payment was made. IMHO, Team Paradigm does a superior job of customer service - for example, I had placed an order and had a small (under $5) item backorder, months later when their supplier finally got it together, they sent my item asap! That's good order tracking and good customer service! No businessman in his right mind would make a refund or send an order without some proof of payment - send him a copy of your payment reciept and I'm sure he'll make it right.

-John

Webmaster: Thank you for not closing this thread.

To all: Why should I blame somebody for no reason? I will keep you informed what will happen in the next days.

Just a few statements:

Brandon wrote:
We have communicated through email numerous times, and it seems to get no where. When all you do is try to flame our company or me personally, I honestly see no further reason to respond.

You wrote me 2 emails, the rest was written by Matt (Sales) who said that you are checking your system for money entry. But nothing happened.
I´m sorry that I use this kind of communication - but it seems this is the only one possiblity to get your attention. I waitet for a long time now and nothing happened. That´s the reason I decided to communicat this way.
If you hold up your part of the deal - I will not flame you and stop talking bad about you and your company the same second.

Brandon wrote:
I will however, make a deal with you. If you can provide me with a copy of your credit card statement showing that you were charged, I will give you a sincere appology, refund your card, and still send you your order in full at no charge.

Maybe you tried my only one credit card a few times. Maybe there was problem - I don´t know. All I know is: I have more than enough money on my credit card...
I wrote you many times that after the credit card problem I paid with Paypal. I wrote you every detail I got from Paypal. I told you also that I paid with paypal with my private email adress "umstaedter@gmx.de" and I log in your shop with my company adress "ums@gedas.de". Didn´t I?
Please give me your personal email-adress. I will prove it again that I paid with Paypal. That´s no problem for meTomorrow I´m in the office and I will send you some files which prove that I´m right (At this moment I use the 8 years old computer of my parent. It´s too slow to work with). Please check and tell me if it is that what you need or tell me what else you need from me to prove I´m right. I´m sorry but the language in this files is in german. Will that be a problem for you?


Brandon wrote:
I will admit that mistakes can happen, that is innevitable. However when I look back at our credit card charge logs that we keep very good records of, it shows that we tried more than one card from you, all of which were denied.

Soryy Brandon, then check your records better. I have only one credit card. And this credit cards worked everytime I needed it in any shop around the world...
It´s not possible that you tried more than one credit card from me. Maybe I´m not the costumer you are thinking about...

Brandon wrote:
As for what you posted about what I said above, that is untrue. I responded saying that this order had been a big mess and was very confusing, but never did I post any negative comments about you personally.

I can show you the email. But I will not do it in a forum because I don´t want to blame the person who showed me.

Brandon wrote:
If you have had a bad experience with us, then I will appologize for that. But as with any business, we cannot refund your card for something that was not paid for. Again though, if you can prove me wrong, I will hold up my end of the deal and refund your card and still ship your order.

We will see. If you will hold up your end of the deal - I will tell everybody that there a mistake happened and at the end everything worked out fine.
I´m not a stupid child. I work in a large global company and I´m responsible for sales because I´m a key account manager. I know this shouldn´t be the kind of our communication - but nothing else worked until now...

Your deal is welcome as an appology. If you refund my account and still send the order I will order again in your shop if I´m welcome. And of course: I will write in every forum that the problem is solved.

Gerhard Umstädter

Brandon, thanks for your help at the Minnesota Throwdown! Brandon offered to loan us a motor, and helped us with our motors. (My son ended up winning stock truck).

Rex Welch
Welch Racing Products

I'm more apt to believe Brandon's story.

Neither of you have actually proven anything, so I'm not sure of the point or motivation behind what's going on. However...

UMS: TP (Team Paradigm and Brandon) or not responsible for your card being denied. Also, a credit decline is not always because of lack of funds. Assuming so can get you in hot water for no reason.

If you reviewed your CC statements you would see the credit decline items, which you could then bring up to your credit company and resolve the issue. That's NOT TP's issue, except if in fact you didn't have the money, you wasted their time.

Having them try it several times and then using a different payment method leads me to believe you knew there's a problem. At that point, if you thought it was fault of TP, then you would have shopped elsewhere. You didn't, so it only supports the notion your CC didn't have the money available or there were other issues with the card.

If you paid with PayPal, you could have filed a fraud claim with them, and they would have given your money back after 30 days, giving them time to investigate the matter.

For information purposes only, Brandon: If his card truly was denied, then I would suggest sending the declination slip to the customer via mail. That way, there is no question who's fault it is...it is either the customer's or the customer's CC holding company. This could also help the customer resolve any issues with their CC company.

Just my thoughts...

Not for nothing but sometimes a card can be denied because the billing address and the shipping address dont match or the name on the ship to is different than the name on the card. can be as simple as not using ones formal name which is on the card etc.....

Sorry, I don´t care who believes me or not.
But I know very well what happened. And I know how many credit cards I have... It´s just important for me that I get my stuff or my money back.

But now I will see what Brandon will do. I sent him a scrennshot from me paypal account and asked paypal if they can send him something to prove that I paid.

Brandon: Will I get an answer from you to my mail?

Today I sent a statement from Paypal to Brandon which shows that I paid and the money was transfered...

UMS: If you want, send me the screenshot and I'll block out all unneeded info and post a pic.....

It's not a matter of who believes who, I don't think....

We all know strange things happen.....

tres@tresleonard.com

tres, you got a mail

Brandon: Why don´t you answer?

UMS,

I just got your email. I am out of the office on wekends, so that is why I didnt get back to your right now. I am looking into it now and I will get back to you shortly.

<---- Sits curiously waiting.

Brandon, that´s ok. Please check for my screenshots an the mail from paypal, which I sent to your account.

Paypal should of sent you a confirmation of payment email......you could just forward that to brandon, as it will have the transaction ID....

Later EddieO

Eddie, I asked them to do that...
Thank you for your advise.

I think his point is that Paypal should have sent YOU an e-mail confirming the transfer and YOU should send it to TP.

I did that allready. But it´s written in german. I hope that´s not the problem.

silly question... don't know but in the past, i've had credit cards denied when they were from over-seas. i am presuming you are from outside the states. (i glanced through this whole thread)

my friend, who owns a retail outlet for computer stuff, had 3 cards denied when a person from France tried to use his Visa card in the US for a 150$ computer part. When he checked his balance online, it was ok, but it never got swiped.

he found out later it had to do something with Fraud protection.

don't know if that is what caused it here, but...

just my two cents.

you´re right - I´m from Germany.

In the past I ordered a lot of stuff at towerhobbies and I paid with my vredit card. This worked all the time.

But I don´t want to go on with thinking about a credit-card-problem.

For me it´s important that Brandon knows that I paid. That´s all.

UMS,

Sorry about the delay... this has been rather confusing, but I think I have this figured out.

From the emails we recieved from you, you had said we charged your credit card. So when I was searching for where you were charged I came up with nothing, as did our credit card merchant. However, we did recieve a payment from you through PayPal. The way our shopping cart is setup is to automatically mark PayPal orders as paid once the payment was made through PayPal. Since your order was originally made as a credit card order, our system obviously did not catch the PayPal payment because it was watching for a credit card transaction. Because we recieve a large number of PayPal payments every day, your payment was quickly a few pages down on our PayPal page, so it was overlooked. Since all PayPal payments are normally made through our cart, we were not watching for nor expecting an extra payment to come through.

Regardless, your payment was recieved, just not in the method that we were looking for, so I appologize for that.

As I have said before, I am a man of my word, so I will process your refund as well as send out your order at no charge. I hope that you can understand that this was a simple mistake because of some unusual circumstances and is not something that is normal. To answer your other question, if you would like to continue business with us, I will have no hard feelings and would look forward to proving that we can provide you with a quality product and excellent service.

As for why your card did not go through originally, I cannot give an exact reason because our system simply said "Accepted" or "Declined." I am guessing it has something to do with it being an international order, however we do process multiple international cards daily without problems. My guess would be that the address or CVV codes may not have matched.

Please allow a couple days for the PayPal transaction to reverse, and feel free to let us know if you have any further questions.

Sincerely,
Brandon Rohde

Brandon,

thank you for clearing up this "mistake". For me it is important that I look as a respectablly businessman and buyer. I allways pay my bills.

After all this really hot words (I don´t know the right words..) everything turned to a happy end.

Please excuse my posting in the forums.

Let´s forget the past - let us concentrate on the future. Ok?

To everybody who was reading this posting: The most people were right. It was just a stupid mistake.

i think the way brandon handled this issue will do nothing but grow his business even more! not every day someone admits to screwing up, even fewer would have refunded the payment 100% and send the order out on top!

nice job team paradigm!!!!! i feel all warm inside just reading this thread,lol.

ums.. if you dont wish for your previous statments to be read anymore, you can always delete the post ...

I think the posts should stand so people can read and understand what happened from beginning to end & get the frustration indicated in the posts. Deleting information will just make people wonder.

Brandon, I applaud the way you are addressing this. I guess this lets you know there was (at least I hope it is "was" now) a glitch in your bookkeeping/accounting practices that you can correct.

Like most others I've been folowing along, just curious.
I must say I'm very happy with the way BOTH of you handled this matter, professionally and like adults.
Don't delete any threads, like UMS stated "a happy ending" is what we wanted to see :thumbsup: .

Catch ya later, Bret

PS. Brandon, do you have a website???

Yeah don't delete. I am sure both parties are happy and more than likely Brandon has gain more customers recently. I know I'll be one soon...

I will write it here when the happy end happened (refund and order).

Brandon,

nothing happened after your last posting from 04/29/2005... How many days do you need? What should I write in a mail, that you answer it?

So where does this issue stand? UMS did you get your stuff and refund? just curious!

I didn´t get anything yet.
I just got an email from Brandon 2 days ago (I hope it´s ok that I post the email here):

Gerhard,

I have processed it through PayPal, however because the order was more than 3 months old, I had to submit a special request for a refund, which is done manually by them. It states from 7-21 days. I appologize for the delay, but the refund has been processed and should be there shortly.

Sincerely,
Brandon Rohde

we will see what will happen the next days... I keep you informed

?? Why request a refund? Why not just send you the money back? Wierd.

Please keep us posted.

If you do a refund, the PayPal fees are refunded also along with any PayPal claims.

PayPal can be REAL pain to work with if it's not a straight forward transaction.

well, still nothing... Maybe Paypal needs a long time for the refund.
And the stuff is still not here...

Someone is scamming someone, but I haven't sided yet. :)

Sorry... what is "scamming"?

The problem is how to prove my side... But it seems that Brandon is working on the problem...

today I saw an other guy who has the same problems with TeamPardigm... Look at Big Jims Forum at rccars.com... This proves that I am not telling wrong stories...

One reason.I don't do PAYPAL.To much B.S. If a problem occurrs. UMS. keep us posted on end results. Scamming someone many different interpretations. Bottom Line is, someone is trying to screw someone out of MONEY.

I see it exactly the opposite. I prefer PayPal because of it's security. I got scammed on an ESC. The guy just dropped off the radar screen with my money. He was not longer registered with eBay, his e-mail was turned off. I would have had to wait a month for eBay to try to help. I contacted Paypal and within a few days I got an e-mail that the seller had "agreed to return my money". I figure they just went and yanked it out of his account. Without them, I would have been up the creek.

It is really dissappointing when everyone complains about PayPal. I want to see the results of UMS's transaction as well, but I think flaming PayPal for ANYTHING is over the top. Most of the problems people have are from those who don't understand the banking industry, don't know the Federal regulations involved with the banking industry, and don't care about what kind or how much money is spent protecting consumers information. Let's just stick to this transaction, and wait for the result! Focus on the forum discussion, please.

I find it odd that UMS doesn't have the items yet...as I that was in Brandon's post...Brandon?

I find it odd that UMS doesn't have the items yet...as I that was in Brandon's post...Brandon?

SuperXRAY: Do you now understand why I´m so pissed off?

"PayPal can be REAL pain to work with if it's not a straight forward transaction. " I don´t care about paypal or something else... I´m not interested in problems with transactions. What I want is my money and that Brandon holds up his end of the deal. Please remember what he said: Refund the money and send the order

If I would be a dealer and something like that would happen - I would solve this problem out in a few days... But at the moment I am in the same situation like a few weeks ago: I am waiting for the refund an dthe order every day and every day I am waiting I´m getting more angry about this story...

But if you think my words are too hard - check rccars.com - there is somebody who is more angry than me.

I agree that this should have been resolved. Through PayPal or not but do try to keep in mind that we are talking international shipping and financial things here. I suspect that Germany's mail system is better than Italy's but I got a postcard from Italy over a month after my folks came home from their vacation in Italy! :rolleyes:

What I would like to see from Brandon is a shipping number showing that he had indeed sent out the package. That way UMS would at least have to confidence that SOMETHING was happening. From what I can tell, this is a pretty small order anyway. Just send UMS the money and be done. Or the flame war continues at his companies expense.

When Big Jim sent my order - I got it in 11 days...

But - you have to send something - that´s it.

UMS,

Of course I understand the situation and your concerns, but I in no way see how throwing words around resolves the problem. I most definitely know about being ripped off, it isn't like you are the only one this has ever happened to. The parts of my post relating to PayPal are for those who keep posting..."PayPal sucks" or "I love PayPal" or whatever else they say. That stuff has nothing to do with your problem, it's just their opinion.

I meant what I said...I think it's odd that you don't have the products you ordered yet. I think Brandon should follow up on here with what he is doing to resolve the matter, as he did say he was sending your order AND refunding your money. If you don't have either, then I'd be recording phone conversations that should be taking place with you and his shop. You being overseas makes it very difficult to take any sort of legal action without incurring costs. However, it's up to you to determine how much this battle is worth. If all this happened the way you described it, then you are right and Brandon is wrong. BUT, what's the recourse? You are a great distance away, and Brandon obviously doesn't see the need to be a good businessman, so that doesn't leave you with many options...

I know that regardless of the outcome, I won't purchase products from Paradigm. Even though I don't agree entirely with the way things have been said in this forum, I don't agree on a higher level with the lack of information provided by Brandon. Even though it's really between you and him; you decided to make it publicly reviewable by posting, which is understandable. Brandon, however, is obviously trying to keep things hush-hush...and once this is publicly viewable, both sides should be prepared to confront the matter!

I feel for you...but other than spending lots of money on a legal battle that would involve power of attorney, I'm not sure what can be done. U.S. Business isn't designed to help the consumer.

You are right. I don´t have too much opportunities without high costs.
That is the reason why I´m posting here and in other forums.

It seems there is a big race event in the USA at the moments. Some friends of mine from Germany (Marc Rheinard and his his father Uwe) are there at the moment. Do you know something about a international event?

I don't like knowing about those events before hand, it really bums me out when I can't go! :) So, I just wait till it's over and then read about it. Someday I'll have the funds to attend something bigger than the regionals, but not at this point.

I'm not sure which races are running at the moment, been much too busy with other things.

They are at the Reedy Race in California....

"Gerhard,
I have processed it through PayPal, however because the order was more than 3 months old, I had to submit a special request for a refund, which is done manually by them. It states from 7-21 days. I appologize for the delay, but the refund has been processed and should be there shortly.
Sincerely,
Brandon Rohde

"Umstaedter, Gerhard" <Gerhard.Umstaedter@gedas.de> wrote:
Brandon,
Again this communication problem? How many days do you need to refund my
money?
Is this the way you hold up your end of the deal???
Gerhard"

This email is from the 18th of May 2005... Sinice this time nothing happened! I didn´t get the order - I didn´t get the refund!

Brandon, what´s going on? Keep in mind that I will go on in the forum until I get the refund! If you sent something, please tell me the shipping number and tell me the transaction number of paypal.
Again my question: Is this the way you hold up your end of the deal???

I will write this in an email, too.

Gerhard