One thing I have been messing around with quite a bit these last few weeks is controllers.Currently.I have Parma econo 45's as well as Nitro 120's.Not using brakes at the moment.
I've been messing around with magnet cars pretty heavily lately.I thought that the 45 was where it's at until I tried the 120.Now I can't stop using the 120.I like the fact that the power band seems a lot wider,and it seems to give me a lot more control in the turns.
All I have to go by so far is my own limited experience and observations.I'd like to know what some of your controllers of choice are and why.

Mike

I have three: a parma 60, a BRP 90, and a BRP 120. I find that the 90 and 120 are a little high for magnet cars... you have to get almost halfway into the throttle just to get rolling. It's even worse with old inline cars like Lionel and Atlas... you only have like the last 1/3 of controller travel to work with. I usually leave the 90 and the 120 hooked to the track, but if I know I'll be running inlines for a while, I'll switch to the 60. Now, this all may be because I'm using old Aurora power supplies from the 1960's...

--rick

My personal controller is a Professor Motor electronic HO variable adjust which is a pretty nice controller for @ $100. I can use it for anything from a TJet to a Modified BSRT G2. For the track, also have a couple of 25 ohm Parma's for general use with cars with modified motors and higher strength magnets. All of the other guns in-house are 45 ohm Parmas. The Parma's are there for anyone to use. Another member owns a lower level PM controller which retailed for @ $60.

Tracks must be wired in "positive polarity" (standard) configuration to use these electronic controllers.

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I really don't mean to change the focus of this topic (especially since this is my first post) but I've been lurking for a while and have some questions that are very closely related to this post. All those preliminaries out of the way, I'm wondering at what point you should invest in after-market controllers. I know that there is probably a lot of grey area but maybe there are some good guidelines someone could share. I'm putting together a pretty sizable 4 lane track setup. I currently have about 60-70 feet and am trying to find the right layout before I finally mount this to plywood. Though I do have some Thunderjets and Magnatraction cars, my kids spend about twice as much time running G-plus and Tyco 440's. I really don't anticipate moving much beyond stock cars. So... given all that, should I be at a point of considering the use of non-set controllers?

welcome aboard

is that 60-70 feet per lane?!#*

if so you may want to consider other than 1 stock power supply.

yep, it's per lane. right now I have two power packs, each running two lanes but I can tell that there seems to be a slight drop off when the cars are furthest away. I'm considering adding two more terminal tracks and power packs to give each lane it's own supply. Once I get it fixed, I'm going to look into a better power supply.

I think I'm making up for a "restricted" childhood. My brother and I saved for what seemed like years and finally got a small track that we were only able to configure in a small figure eight. Now that I have the means, I'm eager to build a big home track like I always wanted to.

Sharing 1 wallwart between 2 lanes is greatly asking for major annoyance.
2 cars are winging nicely on shared power. 1 car comes off and the other gets a power dump. Zinngggg! it deslots too. Does this happen to you? It happened to me...alot. Now with 1 wallwart per lane (using 4), my kids can deslot until they are tired of fetching their own cars! (funny, they learn to slow down real fast) LOL

Try it, you'll like it! :)

Yep, I'm sure it'll be an improvement to have one per lane. I think my brother and I had a few fights about who did or didn't let off right before the other was about to enter a corner.

Back to the topic... should I also be considering non-set controllers or given the cars I'm running would it not be a bid deal? I noticed that they were getting a bit warm but didn't think I had anything to worry about.

I would have to say I got a lot more enjoyment out of racing my cars when I got aftermarket controllers.I think Hobby Linc has Parma Econos,which would be a good upgrade from set controllers for around $17.

Best bet would be to watch this thread and see what everyone is using.That would give you a good idea of where you would want to be.


Mike

My favorite would be my Difalco, my Rudock second, then a tricked out Parma 25 ohm, has variable brakes an full power relay I added, here is a couple great link for Parma controller mods http://home.att.net/~medanic/Tech-Parma.htm an here http://p075.ezboard.com/fpockitfrm10.showMessage?topicID=87.topic an here http://www.howorld.net/archives/howto/controllermod/resistor.html

I also like to "Blueprint" the resistors on the Parma, by wet sanding the face till smooth, then doing the same with the contact pad, makes a HUGE difference in the feel, they can feel as smooth as a electronic controller

Thanks for all the input guys.

I'm still a little wary of the super duper high end controller.That,and I don't think I;m really worthy of one yet.I wouldn't appreciate it.If I went out and spent 2 grand on golf clubs,I would still be chipping balls out into the woods.If I dropped 200 clams on a controller,I'd still be slamming cars into the cinderblock walls.
In time tho,I will probably get one of the high end ones.

I think I'll buy a few more econos.The 120's rule for the tjet type cars,but I think for the magnet cars that I have grown so fond of I need something in between my 45s and the 120.I really like having two options,a few more wouldn't hurt.

AS always,I'll let you all know what I come up with.

Mike

Don't fool yourself, a good controller is more affordable than you think:

http://www.professormotor.com/cat_controls.shtml

Look at it this way; how much money have you spent on cars? How much money have you spent on track, power, table supplies, etc, etc. But you use the SAME controller, over and over to race everything on your killer layout and elsewhere. Why skimp on what could be the most important electrical link in your whole system? This component is directly responsible for controlling the power and handling of your slot cars. This is the part that will get the most use and abuse. And if your old Parma or, god forbid, AFX controller breaks, how many more do you have around to grab and keep racing like you would a choice of cars? You can buy and build a great slot car. You can do excellent wiring under your track. You can make sure you have perfect power everywhere on your layout. What if you cheapy controller and skimpy wires restricts ALL of your other efforts?

Parma's are good, but if you race a lot they will wear out pretty quickly and are not repairable. Sure you can add resistors, but the trigger and hinge on an "Econo" are a manufactured unit that isn't available for individual resale as far as I know. You can move up to a "turbo" unit, but the cost of these are now comparable to electronic controllers with half the moving parts and less heat.

And for the guy asking about when to get rid of his AFX controllers? NOW. :o Unless you have really small hands and don't want all your power going to your nice new slot cars. If you're building a permanent layout, don't even think of using those toy controllers. The wires are to small and the components are mass produced junk. :rolleyes:

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I have been using a lower end Silver Series PM controller for over 2 years now and am very happy with it. I do not like the one I have for JLTOs though. They are still a little jumpy with mine.

So if I'm running stock in-line magnet cars like 440's and G-Plus, what should I be considering?

Ditto what AFX said. I'd like to hear more about these. The 47.95 HO controller doesn't seem to be adjustable, and there's no ohm rating listed... I assume that because there's no resistor, there is no actual ohm rating. Is it possible to compare the range or an electronic to a given ohm-rated mechanical controller? And the 59.95 HO controller with the "preinstalled low cost variable sensitivity system"-- does that mean I can adjust it to feel like different ohm ratings on a mechanical controller? Finally, what does "positive polarity" mean?

Thanks in advance...

--rick

[QUOTE=Slott V].

Parma's are good, but if you race a lot they will wear out pretty quickly and are not repairable. Sure you can add resistors, but the trigger and hinge on an "Econo" are a manufactured unit that isn't available for individual resale as far as I know. You can move up to a "turbo" unit, but the cost of these are now comparable to electronic controllers with half the moving parts and less heat.
/QUOTE]

Scott I believe the Parma econos now have a nylon trigger and improved hinge a lot closer to the turbo than before

Roger Corrie

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Sounds like AFXToo has the function covered, which is more than I could explain- :thumbsup:

As far as usability; The best controller I have used before this was a Parma Turbo with a large heat sink and adjustable brakes. My new PM controller does not have the adjustable brake POT, but the website says I can add it. I rarely use brakes since it's like throwing out an anchor with HO cars, but my track has been wired for the option, with a switch to turn brakes on or off. This is the model I bought:

http://www.professormotor.com/pmtr2059.shtml

The adjustable aluminum knobs (http://www.planetofspeed.com/discus/messages/8/2528.jpg) are interesting; If I want to run a balls out Patriot Modified or Tyco with Phase III mags and rewound motor, I'll crank the knobs all the way in from one end to the other. If I go to run a Super Stock class Panther, I'll dial out the first three or four knobs closest to the low speed spot. If the car is still a little "pipey" out of the corner, I'll dial out one or two more for better mid-range. If I go to a stock Tyco, I'll have all of the knobs dialed out about half way, and the first couple turned out a full rotations or more for more "cushion" in the trigger in low speed cornering. Having the adjuster on the last semi-conductor seems weird to me since there is a full throttle stop with a power lead for full power. I guess it is for the last conductor before the stop. You can really fine tune your driving with this thing. I'm not completely sure about using these for TJets so you may want to call the Professor. I have used it with Tjets briefly but I don't do much with TJets.

Mine is a dual polarity and there are two small LED's inside the gun (http://www.planetofspeed.com/discus/messages/8/2530.jpg) to tell you if you have to polarity correct for your hook up. Yellow is obviously caution, and Green is good, and either will be lit without pulling the trigger. What is interesting is that the LED doesn't light until you place a car on the rails. It's a neat option that can tell you if your car is deslotted somewhere or just has a bad connection where it is sitting. Another member's track was wired with the same schematic drawings that I used, which is Brian Fergusons' excellent schematic. However this member's track doesn't have the brake option. If I hook the controller up "wrong" on the Black or White post, the gun will light up Yellow, but the car will still operate. It is just sluggish and you can tell right away you're hooked up wrong. This may have something to do with the directional switches we installed. Without directional switches, you could probably swap the rear axle/gear around.

Last is the size- This thing is BIG! it's made for a man's hand. Much larger on top than a Parma. Super nice cabling and alligator clips.

http://www.planetofspeed.com/discus/messages/8/2529.jpg

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Also- here are links to some wild HO controllers guys posted on my BBS in the past:

http://www.planetofspeed.com/discus/messages/2785/1084.jpg

http://www.planetofspeed.com/discus/messages/2785/1085.jpg

http://www.planetofspeed.com/discus/messages/2785/1113.jpg

http://www.planetofspeed.com/discus/messages/2785/1131.jpg

Ok,after reading what some of you had to say,and looking at the links and pics that Slot V posted,I'm sold.I'm going to have to pick me up one of these fancy controls now.
I am especially impressed by the small pots on the side of the controller and how you can fine tune to your driving style.Very cool!!!!

I think the 120 Nitros I have cover the tjet style cars I have perfectly.Now that I am getting heavily into the "magnet" style cars,I see how one of these higher end controllers could make a dif.

The one thing that was kind of making me shy away is the polarity sensitivity issue.If anyone is going to forget and hook one up backwards,it will be me.But now I see the ones with dual polarity,so I need worry no more.

Thanks for all the info so far,this turned out to be a pretty good thread.It could pretty much be titled "Everything you ever wanted to know about controllers".

Back to the basement for me.I got some links from one of the email dl's for some controller "hop ups".I'm going to mess around and see what I can come up with.Stay tuned.

Mike

.nevermind

Not that I know too much about controllers, but I did learn a lesson when I cooked my Parma at my old 1:24 club, just cuz I hooked it on wrong.

If youre worried about putting it on wrong, try this...attach all the leads properly, then take a small piece of dowelling, lay it across the three leads fairly close to the clips, and twist tie each lead to the dowelling. Then next time you hook up just make sure the dowel side is up.

This is only for if you have no shame. :p

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The quickest way to cook a Parma is to hook the white to white and the black to red (brake) on the driver's station. Don't ask me how I know...
Smokey

Yep, that's how ya do it. Ain't it a lovely smell?

the parma econo controler can be rebuilt you can get the kit that has the nylon triger the pin and everything to put it in if u need to rebuild the econo controler

very informative thread... thanx to all for the info. Sounds like it'd be worth an email to PM...

--rick

Sounds like the PM controller is a great choice for magnet cars.

But since my current taste in cars leans slightly more towards T-jets than magnet cars, I'm a bit hesitant to pry open the wallet (the 2056 model that has the features I like is $100, ouch) without hearing an opinion on if the low end is adequate for a stock JL TJet.

Anybody?


The 2059 model isn't listed on the PM site other than on the link that was posted. Possibly a discontinued model?

Manning.....

Before you buy anything,you might want to check out the BRP Nitros:

http://sky.prohosting.com/horacer/brp/nitro.html

I picked up a pair of 120's last week,and they were just wnat I was looking for for my tjets as well as JL cars.I haven't ever heard one person say anything bad about these.Everyone who tries them,including myself,end up loving them.

For the price,you can't beat them.Two thumbs up :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Mike

(^RacerX^),

The BRP Nitro controllers are #1 on my wish list at the moment. They should be 100% functional for my application, and reasonably priced. Thinking about getting an 80 and a 95 to try. Seems like the 120 might be overkill. I tend to mod the TJets in the "Fray" style, so the extreme low speed control of the 120 may not be needed. Will have to experiment with some of my junk.......

However, I keep looking at the PM stuff 'cause of the cool factor. And, I used a Cidex (another diode type controller) years ago when there was a local 1/24th commercial track. Wish I still had it.... :(

I hear you on the cool factor.I saw some of the PM controllers at the SOHRS race I was at yesterday afternoon.I am a sucker for gadgets,and I know I will have a blast when I finally break down and get one.


I think the two resistances you mentioned would be perfect for what you want to do.I think the 120's are better suited to the JL cars.

Whatever you decide to do,be sure to let us know and what you think.


Mike

I got a half lap from direct 110 out of the wall til she smoked. I gotta slow down man !!