Just wondering why more people don't run brushless in off-road. You'd think it would be less maintenance and a better system to use in RC, but I don't see it a lot. I'm new to RC and the brushless idea seems great. Are there drawbacks?

Because brushless motor are fairly new to RC cars and trucks. With them becoming legal for racing this year I am sure they will be showing up more and more.

The price is one, with the inablity to tune or extract more power out of your combination. With brush motor systems knowing a few tuning secrets, getting a motor that is slightly better than your competition would be key. With a brushless system there would be less tuning involved and competition would based on driving ability.

The lack of having a few companies involved in the production of brushless system is another, you have no price competition among companies, differences in technolgy - one being better than another. But as more companies get involved , you sees prices get better, along with equipment then probably more racers will go the brushless route.

It took Novak close to 12years to finally come up with a workable model that could be used in low voltage situations.

beleive me it is catching on as soon as a couple get them and realize what a better race day they make and how much money they save you over the course of the season they will switch. my brushless system has paid for itself at least 4 times over in just the first year alone, i have had to buy virtually nothing, no extra motors, spring brushes cans armaturs ect., ect,
most of the people that i race with on a regular basis have switched and wish they had done it sooner.

There are more then a couple people out there that know how to tune a brushed motor... so once you go up against somone with those skills, your skills are basicly canceled out. So in the end, you have to put alot of effort into keeping your brushed motors maintained, just to keep up with the other guys that know how to tune a motor... in the end it's just extra work, and no real advantage to anyone that knows how to do it... only a disadvantage if you don't know how, or don't have the time or desire to fiddle with the darn things...

So... brushless is less work, just as fast, if not faster... and well just as fun, if not funner...

However... someday not to far from now... there will be ways to tweak a brushless system... It won't be as much work as a brushed motor, but will be possible and may even be ejoyable... Soon even brushless will allow people who like to tinker with things a bit to do it... you just won't have to get your hands dirty, cause it will be done with software.

Price is not really a drawback. The cost of a good quality brushed motor and ESC is as much if not more then a brushless system. I agree with Dyno... can't wait until we can tweak the brushless ESCs... we should even be able to swap ESC setups with other racers and you'll be able to plug it into your computer and load it up!

So don't get rid of that dyno laptop... it may come in use yet! With the new programmable transmitters coming on the market that laptop can do double duty!

Hank trust me cost is something to consider now I dont care but when I was a teenage and in college racing the initial investment was huge and I could never do it.

Sure, but a brushed system and a brushless system is, for the most part, the same price.

Mod brushed motor = $55.00
5 pair of brushes = $20.00
Novak GT7 ESC = $135.00
Total = $210.00

Novak SS5800 brushless system = $220.00

I don't think price is the drawback. I just picked up my second brushless system (ss+) and motor (5800) for $209.00. The prices are very comparable. I just like the idea of working on the car and not cutting the motor every 3-4 runs. I've ran battery pack after battery pack with the older novak w/4300 and no problems. I believe that more racers needs see them in a race and realize the speed. They are slowly catching on here in Fl but not soon enough for me.

After getting back into the hobby this year. At every track guys are cutting motors after each run. Talked to a lot of people about including the fast guys. they really like working on the motor for performance. The track Owner thinks it would be the end of the hobby/ I have had to have motors built for me to get faster. The guys were great helping me out.
used to have a Dyno and it really elevated my performance. I just want to race now and have fun. Working on motors is a pain especially with out a Dyno. We ran spec motors at one track and was a blast. Everyone was even. The brushless system sounds great.
racing with four 5 guys all the same speed would be awesome. Lots of Chassis work. And working on driving skills. That fits the bill perfectly for me. hopefully some local track will pick up on this.
Love to here from the people here like Brent Pearcy, Steve "rocket" Miller and other fast guys as well as the comeback guys.
Cheers
Dan

Right now, you can buy a Novak 4300 system for about $160 if you find a good deal on it and/or take advantage of discounts like tower has. I'd like to see this price go down a little further, and I'd like to see it used as a entry level class. If it were possible to get these to like $150 at any local hobby shop, they would be hands down way cheaper then the current 'stock' brushed motor systems in both entry cost and clearly in long term operating cost.

It's very likely that the only thing that would make the long term cost of brushless go up, would be if there is continuing improvements in the controler technology. Motor technology is very likely to be static, perticularly if there were some good rules/specs written down initialy. (like NOW) The controler technology is likely to be harder to keep under control, and rules to restrict it will be harder to come up with.

It would be really cool if there was some cheap electronic type device that could verify the standard settings of a controler like the Novak SS... Something you could attach a brushless controler to and then have a laptop computer confirm that it was within some operating specifications. Then you could use such a device to 'tech' a spec class of brushless. Without this I'm afraid that brushless will eventualy become a controler war as the technology develops.

Short of this device just described to tech controlers... I think a local club should try to mandate a spec class of contoler used for brushless club racing. Say make the Novak SS the only allowable controler, and then specify the motor to use (4300 would be a good choice). An orginization like ROAR would not have the luxury of limiting a class to one manufacturer, so I don't think this soulution would work for them, but clubs could probably go this far.

The next step up should be something like any controler allowed with some specific motor. If you used the same motor as the lower level class, people could move up simply by buying a new controler. Or maybe even just open up the programing possiblitys of some other controler that gets used in the entry level class...

Then of course there would wind up being another class where anything goes...

So... why don't more people run brushless... basicly because it's a new thing, and sometimes new things are slow to catch on. People often resist change for many reasons.

After getting back into the hobby this year. At every track guys are cutting motors after each run. Talked to a lot of people about including the fast guys. they really like working on the motor for performance. The track Owner thinks it would be the end of the hobby/ I have had to have motors built for me to get faster. The guys were great helping me out.
used to have a Dyno and it really elevated my performance. I just want to race now and have fun. Working on motors is a pain especially with out a Dyno. We ran spec motors at one track and was a blast. Everyone was even. The brushless system sounds great.
racing with four 5 guys all the same speed would be awesome. Lots of Chassis work. And working on driving skills. That fits the bill perfectly for me. hopefully some local track will pick up on this.
Love to here from the people here like Brent Pearcy, Steve "rocket" Miller and other fast guys as well as the comeback guys.
Cheers
Dan

Hi Dan!! I don't know where you got the idea that I was one of the "fast guys" but thanks!! :thumbsup: I love to play with brushed motors!! I look at it as another variable in the equation for being fast. I have not played with brushless motors at all but I do think they would make an excellent replacement for the spec class. I say "replacement" because there are already too many classes IMO & adding more classes will only saturate things more & spread the racers even thinner than they already are. Also they would be allot more appealing to someone new than brushed motors for obvious reasons. I would like to give them a shot sometime but the cost thing is an issue for me, considering that I already have over $500 tied up in speed controlers, motors, & brushes. If I were looking to start fresh or I were a newbie, Brushless would probably be the way I would go if there was a class for it at my local track. That is another issue, allot of tracks don't offer a brushless class so guys aren't going to spend $200 for a system that they are not going to be able to run.

__________________
Brent Pearcy
Bulit Motorsports (http://www.bulitmotorsports.com/), TQCells (http://www3.sympatico.ca/tqcells/), BSR Racing Tires (http://www.bsr-racing.com/), SROC Racing (http://www.geocities.com/s_roc_racing)

I think now that they are ROAR Legal they are going to change the face of MOD racing real soon.
I run my Novak 5800 in my TC3 "O" all winter and never have to think about it. Gear it right and it runs with all the top dawgs as far as speed and I have it geared rather mild and have no trouble keeping up if not pulling them down the straights. It is about the same as a 10 turn.
Torque and acceleration is incredible and instant.
We have quite a few that run them at Washtenaw. Not just Novak. And now with the LRP Sphere on the market it should even increase.
I don't see any drawbacks..... Other than no tuning capabilities right now other than gearing.
I have heard and experienced in On Road racing during the summer that my unit and my racing buddy's had problems with overheating. There are some that said the early versions had a thermal shutdown setting that was too low.
Dan

Your proabably right about running them in mod with off & on-road cars but in oval when most guys are running 7x1 & 7x2's they are way off the pace. I don't think they will change the face of MOD racing in oval, not for a while anyway.

__________________
Brent Pearcy
Bulit Motorsports (http://www.bulitmotorsports.com/), TQCells (http://www3.sympatico.ca/tqcells/), BSR Racing Tires (http://www.bsr-racing.com/), SROC Racing (http://www.geocities.com/s_roc_racing)

My investment to run modified offroad when I was a teenager

Speed Gems motor $35
Novak Racer EX $80

This comes to $115 and that at the time was stretching my budget. I bumed money for brushes and to have the hobby shop cut the motor every two-three weeks of mom LOL.

I do own a Novak brushless and think it is great, but having been on both sides of the fence I think I can be pretty objective about it.