hey all:roar is only alowing a max of 3300 on cells for all 2005 races,so why are so many companies comming out with higher cells?also i heard some racers say 3300's are high enough and that the higher cells work best for mod racing only?any insight would be great..thanks and have a great day :wave:

Technology moves on. To be approved a cell has to have wide distribution and have so many produced. This can't be done unless they are manufactured and distributed to racers. Having a long lead time also allows new cells to be perfected and allow racers some planning time on buying new cells. It is much better to be able to consider what to get when buying new cells knowing that on Jan 1 2006 that the new 3700 cells will be legal rather then you buy new 3300 cells on Jan 1 and then Feb 1 a new "legal" 3700 cell is introducted.

With everything else being equal, higher capacity will always be better no matter what the class. Let's look at the below 19 amp (blue line) discharge curve of a battery pack. Notice how during the discharge the voltage goes lower and lower. If you are only using up half the battery you are always on the upper (higher voltage) part of the discharge curve. If you use up the full capacity of the pack, at the end of the race you end up on the end of the discharge curve that has much lower voltage.
http://www.hobbytalk.com/images/sections/s2401bas.gif

hte new 3700 last longer but the 3300 give more pop and power

I haven't heard much about the Intellect 3800 that's coming out..... Some should be here soon though!!!!!

I don't think I'll be giving up on GP any time soon. I remember how much of a jump it was from Panasonic 3000s and Sanyo 3000s. At least I haven't had any fires or explosions or DNFs do to fires or explosions since...

I haven't heard much about the Intellect 3800 that's coming out..... Some should be here soon though!!!!!i dont know about the Intellect 3800's but I am runnig the intellect 3600's and I have heard they go flat, but the 2 packs i have dont, they are absolutely killer, with my 3300's I can turn some 7 second laps early but towards the end its a consistant 8 sec ond lap, well with the 3600's I cranked out 3 7 second laps on the last 3 laps! in TC road course, awesome!

Batteries falling off is usually a maintenance issue. 7 second road course lap? Pretty small track?

hey all:roar is only alowing a max of 3300 on cells for all 2005 races,so why are so many companies comming out with higher cells?also i heard some racers say 3300's are high enough and that the higher cells work best for mod racing only?any insight would be great..thanks and have a great day :wave:

Not so much this year... but next year is going to be an interesting year if ROAR approves the use of all these different types of cells. Companies like mine that match batteries will have to make many tough choices as it simply is not feasible to match every different type of cell.

Gary Huber
Surge Worldwide
www.surgeworldwide.com

[edited] Visit my site type postings not allowed.

I have heard when going from GP3300's to IB3600's you need to drop a tooth, other wise you will start off stronger than 3300's but fall off more at the end of the run.

I kinda proved it.
My buddy let me run a pack (315, 4.71, 10.1 @35A) IB3600's in stock, with the same rollout I use when running GP3300's I had a couple 4.1 lap times but ended on 4.7's
Normally with 3300's I start on 4.2's but end on 4.5's and 4.6's

what I wonder is if there will come a point when the weight of the higher capacity cells will outweigh their performance advantage for pan cars.

Right now in stock racing you have to add lead, but say in mod racing where you need to run a Reviever pack. If your car is at the weight limit and say down the road there are sub C 4200's that weigh more will it be worth it to add the extra weight. Or would lower runtime lighter packs be the way to go.

The first time I used the IB3600s, I went a tooth bigger than normal and set track record. The first 3 laps were a tenth faster than normal but then they settled down. I ran the same lap times throughout the whole race and dropped a tenth the last couple of laps. That was the first charge that they had as a pack also. I ran the same gear with my 3300s the next heat and was just as fast. I didn't see much of a difference between the two. The biggest thing about the IB3600s I found is that they are fast from the first charge unlike GP3300s that take a couple of runs to get to top performance.

There is nothing on that website that has anything to do with 3800. Thanks for wasting my time.

Actuallly there was pic of 3800's on there, and said "Coming soon" when I looked yesterday

The experience I had with the IB 3600's was that the first run was not too good, the second run was as good or better than the 3300's and the third and forth run were killer!

From what I have been told and what I see myself, these are not one run packs. Practice with them once and then run them two or three more times THE SAME DAY. "IF" this holds up to be true, two packs will (allowing one to cool) be all anyone needs. But of course, we have all heard that story before too! ;)

I kept the same gear, was faster up front and stayed faster all the way through the run. (This was after the first run.)

I got my CAR ACTION and on the back page epic was advertizing 3800......now what does a person do...

From what I was told..........you ain't seen nothing yet! I have never made a serious complaint about batteries, new ones come out and you buy them. We may moan and groan but it is a necessary evil. But this is one time where I would not load up on any one type of battery.

Get 2 packs of IB 3800's mid-April and you'll be good to go.

TQCELLS will have them :thumbsup:.

Later, Bret

I think this is where good matchers with good sposored drivers will quickly figure out what's best...

The Jet, that will hold you..........for a while! LOL

The good thing about all of this is that two packs should BE all it really takes so when another "eddition" comes out, it will not be that big of an expense to buy two more packs.

As of now, ARCOR is the only organization that will allow this new stuff (April 1st) and that will just be in 19 turn and Open Mod.

The Jet, that will hold you..........for a while! LOL

The good thing about all of this is that two packs should BE all it really takes so when another "eddition" comes out, it will not be that big of an expense to buy two more packs.

As of now, ARCOR is the only organization that will allow this new stuff (April 1st) and that will just be in 19 turn and Open Mod.

Exactly :thumbsup:
Then you always have fresh batteries too :thumbsup:

Later, Bret

Batteries falling off is usually a maintenance issue. 7 second road course lap? Pretty small track?Yeah 60 X 40 actually a 7.70 , we turn about 36 to 38 laps one bad corner plant and a slow marshall you could be down 2 laps! almost like oval! LOL

When comparing cells, remember that at present time, IB cells cannot be deadshorted - Doing so destroys the cells and lowers the voltage. Because of this most people I have talked with still think GP3300 cells are still king for stock and 19t and do not plan to make a switch to IB. Logically that makes sense because many of the racers I know are using GP3300's which average out to 7.20+ on a GFX (1.120 per cell) The best I've seen of the IB3600's is about 1.180, but I haven't run or seen that many, so in all actuality there could be higher numbers out there.. For the average racer, I do think that the IB cells maybe very attractive especially since they display numbers that are comparable to a normal GP cell and are CHEAPER! Who could complain about that.

I like seeing some competition in the R/C battery market. Even though it has made my job 10x harder trying to choose between all these cells, in the end it will certainly be worth it.

Gary F. Huber
Surge Worldwide
www.surgeworldwide.com

I have heard that GP will or has stoped making GP3300s soon. I have also heard that the GP3700 cells don't have quite as good as voltage as the GP3300s did... so what then?

I talked to some guys that were at the Fountain Money oval race this past weekend. Many tried the IB3600's but felt they got flat 3 min in so they went back to 3300's
So who knows, Hard to say

I run stock so I am limited to 3300's the rest of 2005, Nice
LOL

Eric, if they only ran them once, that is exactly what they will feel like.

Lin
Not sure the procedure they used (ran once or more) or whether they were new packs or not.
Usually with 3300's if you run them more than once in a day you will lose runtime and probably wouldnt make time in 19T or mod.
Is this the case with the IB3600's??

When I ran Bombers this summer I left the same spec pack in all night and in the main the car was usually the quickest. But barely made runtime so it was a gamble with those.

i tq'd in stock at the fountain money race with the IB cells. i have to disagree, they are better over the 4 minutes than my best gp3300's

Lin
Not sure the procedure they used (ran once or more) or whether they were new packs or not.
Usually with 3300's if you run them more than once in a day you will lose runtime and probably wouldnt make time in 19T or mod.
Is this the case with the IB3600's??

When I ran Bombers this summer I left the same spec pack in all night and in the main the car was usually the quickest. But barely made runtime so it was a gamble with those. Where did you run bomber class? If it was at Hobbytown, who are you? The IB3600 definitley like the second time around better, and dont mind a third, I use them once in practice and one heat and a main, and have been running my 3300 in the others, and I can pull 7 second laps at the end of 5 minutes with the IB's and only 8's with the 3300 (but thats on the second charge of the IB3600) And i have all good number batts, 1.185's or better on 3300's and some ridiculous numbers on the IB3600 all I ever run or have ran has been power push.

Eric, here is the experience I have had with the IB 3600’s: (This was all Stock that day) I ran the pack once in practice and it felt flat. I ran it in the first qualifier and it felt as good as anything I have. I kept the same pack in for two more qualifiers and the Main and by the time the main was run, this pack was ALIVE! That made FIVE runs on the same pack and it only kept feeling better and the lap times showed it too.

Something else that I look at is how the pack charges and peaks. The first charge it peaked at around 6.05 volts (I can’t remember the exact numbers but this is close.) The rest of the charges it stayed around 6.08 or so. I can’t remember the “bump up” volts but I do remember them being almost the same from the 2nd charge on.

I did not discharge the pack on the Turbo Charger until after the Main. Just kept it taped in the car, let it cool and re charged it again. Oh, and I won the race! But the other guys were running 3300’s so it is hard to say if it was my “masterful driving” or the extra run time……………I would lean towards the extra run time LOL.

i double ran my best 3600 last night, and it tq'd the first run, and ran fast for 3 minutes in the feature, then flattened out badly. ended up finishing 2nd 15 ft behind the leader. if i had run a fresh pack, i'd have finished a half track ahead of the guy who won. so..... it sure didn't work for me.

pancartom, I really don't understand that one LOL Mine have always ran better the more I ran them. Go figure!

FYI... some interesting reading... comparing GP3300s to IB3600 packs...

http://www.glasselevator.net/bob/?q=node/199

interesting stuff.... i did cycle all of my packs last night, and from my observations, the IB cells have a higher discharge voltage where we stock racers use them. they are better or the same as the GP3300's from start to about 300 seconds at 30 amp discharge. after 300 seconds, the 3300's have a higher voltage. i usually have between 100 and 130 seconds of runtime left @ 30 on a GFX after a 4 minute run. this info is on SMC 3300's that are dead shorted and labeled 365/1.173 @35, and SMC 3600's that are 390/1.175 @35.