:cry: I just Heard that "Slotcar Bob" will soon close down HOWORLD ! What a Shame ! I always enjoyed contributing to it. Any how I want to give a special thanks to Slotcar Bob for his efforts as he went above & beyond to keep it going. I will be the first to admit that I had not sent in articles & $$$$ in a long time. It was the Articles on Resincasting that gave me the inspiration to branch out into doing my own resincasts-Thanks so much !Some times other financial & time priorities can crowd things out. :thumbsup: But I would like to tell Bob he can hold his head up high on this as the HO Hobby will always be better off for his efforts.

Neal :dude:
PS there are still a lot of great articles & pics to see & save in the remaining time.

Hello Neal :wave:
Maybe Bob would let someone "mirror" the website on one of those "free website" hosts, to keep all that great info "out there" for everyone.

Larry

Don't worry its not going to close down every year or so he puts out the distress signal so he can get the money flowing in :) It doesen't cost that musch to maintain a site so he should have no trouble raising the money.

Roger Corrie

Bout to say, I will mirror it on my site if it does go down.

You can always take a static copy of a web site and save it as a file or directory on your local PC using an "offline browser." There are many of these tools available for various prices.

I use offline browsing to keep a local copy of online help and reference manuals that I need to access even when I'm not connected. The better offline browsing tools will keep your offline copy synchronized with the online content when you reestablish an online connection. Very useful.

You should of course assume that the web content you download is still the property of the website author/owner and that offline viewing of the content is a matter of convenience.

Hi Gang :wave:
Here is what SlotCar Bob just p[osted on his HOWL mailing list. I have ccp'd it, is it is his words you are reading.

Larry
---------------------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:03:58 -0800
From: Bob <slotcarbob@mac.com>
Subject: HOW - The final lap - my response

I wanted to sit back for a few days before I responded to all the
wonderful comments and queries of the last few days. First, some site
data (rounded):
1. Average hits per week - 30,000
2. Unique visitors per month, average - 4500
3. Largest hits per day (Tuesday), average - 5000
4. Every continent except Antarctica is represented
5. Prorated average hits per year - 1,500,000
6. Average time spent per page - 25 minutes
7. distinct pages viewed per week - 370
8. The site contains about 5000 pages, and 20,000 photos, and movies.
9. Approximate size of the site - 100 MB

That, in a nutshell, is a look into the site, and how HO World affects
your day.

Second, I want to discuss the yearly cost of doing this, not including
my time (there is some crossover here).
1. Cost for ftp, DNS, and domain is around $200
2. Updates to software, including Adobe Photoshop and GoLive, Microsoft
Office, and other smaller applications is $800-1000
3. Cost of hardware upgrades, including devices to capture analog video
to digital, and maintenance and replacement is upward of $1500

That, in a nutshell, is the expense to run this site.

Now I will express my own views of the situation, and I am hoping that
you all hear this (I also hope it comes off right). Let me start with
the first, and maybe most frustrating part of all of this. HOW is a
"thing", like silicone tires, and controllers, and chassis, and it has
costs involved. Those are listed above, but it doesn't take into
account the fact that it would take so much more to evolve this into
the dream I originally had. With everyone paying an insignificant
$5/year, I could have had the money to advertise the site in major
hobby mags, pay to have professional writers (let's face it, folks, I
suck at that), and then through growth of the site, ask for revenue
from purveyors, and be able to offer them a large enough audience to
increase their businesses.

It is for the above reason that HOW will be discontinued. For some
reason, not even a request of $5 (that's FIVE DOLLARS) was considered
reasonable for an internet site. I made the request almost on a yearly
basis. 'Internet information is free, man". Well, no it isn't, and if
you expect it to grow, and evolve, it takes a lot more. Thanks to the
efforts of 50 or so people every year, my costs were covered by
donations of $5-50, or from merchandise and items given for review
(keeping my own money in my pocket, in essence), and so HO World went
on for 5 1/2 years.

HO World in it''s current incarnation is just not satisfying enough for
me. It didn't evolve. It isn't going toward my dream. And that's the
part of this that is so frustrating, and is the catalyst for abandoning
the project. Yes, you all could send checks, and make donations to my
PayPal account, but it will once again be the same people stepping up,
while the rest just sit on their hands, and it's not enough. Am I
saying this right? I am not angry or bitter, I am just stating the
facts.

You know, I get laughed at a lot when I dare to suggest conformity,
like having all the information in one place is the best thing. There
are always those who must step up and shout out for individuality.
"Let's all have our own sites that attract 20 people, or our own race
rules for 10 drivers". Yeah, yeah, that's all well and good, but I
wanted to grow it bigger than that, make it more universal, and more
one minded. Well, that type of thinking gets you slapped around, and
nothing more. But worse, it deflects the attempt to unify and grow. I
had always thought that the disparate sites around the world might want
a single large repository for their stories. Some got the idea (i.e.
Pocket Rocket, AHORA, MARC, etc), but most did not. They insisted that
it was better to just play to their small groups, instead of getting
the information out to a larger audience. Again, I may be presuming
here, but that's how I saw it, and it's not about anger, it's about
facts.

When I suggested a digital version of HO-USA more than 7 years ago, I
was laughed at. "What would I read in the bathroom". I guess in their
outhouses, HO-USA held the same status as old Sears catalogs, if you
get my drift. At it's peak, the paper version had about 550 people, and
it was delivered 4 times per year. HO World has 9 times that
readership, and it's got full color, and even movies, and in
conjunction with HOWL, the contact is instantaneous, and daily. What if
I had listened to those naysayers back then?

Now, another part of my dream was that I would get to younger people
enough to spur a revival of our hobby. The other day a friend brought
his 2 daughters (12 and 14, I think), to a practice session on my
routed track. They were absolutely enthralled. They even watched me
tune up the cars I set up for them to race, and they listened intently
for 20 minutes, as I disassembled and assembled the cars, and I
explained the workings, and the techniques to them. They couldn't
imagine how involved and interesting it was. Kids get this, and they
like it. I always knew if I could get to them, the hobby would bring
them in, and thrive. It is my contention it didn't happen because the
funds never got to me so I could try.

As to the idea of placing all that HOW information somewhere for
posterity, that costs money, and if there isn't maintenance, it
eventually falls apart. That probably won't happen. I can't see a
scenario that makes that work.

Regarding last ditch attempts to revive HOW, I can only say that any
donations would have to be considered as help for prior services. I
cannot promise that there will be enough to keep HOW going in the
future. If you are determined to try, please send contributions to
PayPal account "slotcarbob@mac.com", or email me for an address. If by
some miracle, enough rolls in, I assure you I will move forward, but I
won't keep it going in its current state. It must evolve or die.

So, I hope that explains my position. The long lineage of HOW, from Ken
Shapiro (HO-USA), to Rick Burneson (HO-USA), to HO World is going to
terminate in a couple of months. I have been honored to be a part of it
all. There were so many of you that I got to meet from this, and so
much was given to me in knowledge, and experience. You are all a
special family to me that I will not forget.

Later
SCB

The Best HO Slot News and Information

aw-dang! I just found Slotcar Bobs place last week!

I think in the end HO World will live on.

I like the email list they have too.I actually like email lists better then web based forums.
One thing I do not like about web based forums is that everyone has a post count next to their name.People see a guy with 10000 posts and immediately think "wow,he must know alot",when in fact,9900 of his posts have one word like "cool" or "way to go".Done just to build up their count so people think they know something.Because of that,web based forums tend to be clogged with a lot of nonsense and "free post" threads.The good stuff gets pushed a few pages back and sometimes doesn't get seen.

Not here on the slot board at Hobby Talk tho.It's pretty much business on this forum,which makes it easy to keep up with.It is for that reason that even tho I read all of the other slot forums,I only participate in this one.Everything that gets posted here is worth a look.

Nice job guys.......

Mike

I think Roger is correct. But no matter what happens the hobby will go on.
For what it's worth, I tried the free offline browser tool "HTTrack Website Copier" from www.download.com and it downloaded the entire site fully intact to a hard disk no problem. The tools user interface is a bit geeky but it works as advertised. You'll need a high speed connection to mirror any large site.

So did I AFXtoo :))

Its on my computer at work. Onl 70 pages were missing and I came up to 80M 2,204 files and took 54 min and 20 seconds. Looks like Bobs numbers are off a tad.

So how did you do?

Roger Corrie

Well it has been a fun website and experience at HOWorld. I haven't read it much lately, and haven't contributed $$ or articles for the last two years or so.

I tend to agree with Bob that, for whatever reason, HOW didn't evolve into what he and we thought it could. It would be nice to "just have it around", but I understand his position.

That's a great site but this sure seems like a long winded way of simply saying he doesn't have the money or means to support his efforts any more. :rolleyes: Yes, web server fees can add up a bit, but hosts can be found today for less than $10/MO. Upgrade fees for software? I really don't understand this part. That's a personal preference and should have no reflection on your reading audience. Using existing versions of software does not stop the site from operating. Same for his "hardware upgrades" statement. :rolleyes:

If you're so broke that you can't pay your pennies on the dollar for monthly server fees....Sell ADVERTISING! Be resourceful. If you can't afford $200/YR for something promoting your favorite hobby then you can't afford to be in the hobby period. All the efforts he has made over the years will be a total loss if he removes the site. Seems a bit short sighted. :cool:

I could just as easily shut down P.O.S. for the same reasons Bob put out there and my site gets NOWHERE near the attention his does. Just because traffic is slow doesn't mean you bury the street with dirt. I think old Bob is just bored and looking for attention.

Well said Slott V!

You have to understand the attitude at HOWorld. The opinions expressed there are the one and only way to view the Hobby. If you disagree you are just plain wrong. Period. End of discussion.

90% of the stuff on HO World is available at other places on the web. You just have to look for it.

IMO, This is a ploy for money, and from what I understand, it's working!

NICK DANGER

Roger, I attained similar results but I'm not sure how you figured out how many pages were missed unless it was in the tool and I closed it without looking. Some of the online links are dead too. I played around with the copy enough to get a feel that It's close enough for what I wanted should the online site go away.

AFXtoo,

This app creates a log file when its done that's where I got all the info.

Roger Corrie

Not sure if it is a coincedence or not but tried to go there this morning and got the "this web site is either busy or experiancing difficulties".

Jeff

p.s. Hey Roger you have a PM.

Yep it looks like it's gone. Hopefully just a hiccup. Would be a shame to lose that site. Maybe all the panic downloads blew out his monthly bandwdith allowance? I was just thinking there was an interview with Oscar Koveleski on that site that I would have liked to save. Was it onthat site? :confused:

There is still this HO SLOT WORLD website which has been around for ages and has a great deal of HO slot car information;

http://members.aol.com/hifisapien/slotcars.htm

.

Darn, I didn't get a backup of the site before it went down. Said it once, will say it again, I have to space and bandwidth to host all the info, but of course I can't do it without permission.

It's still up. Folks on the HO World list were worried this morning too. It was a temporary hiccup, just by coincidence as he's talking about eventually shutting it down...

--rick

maybe a scare tactic to get some money sent to him? I don't know the personality of the guy, but from reading the email he sent out, I gather that he might take it downas a scare to see if he could get people to jump up and send him money in attempts to keep it open. I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but if that's the case, then that's pretty low. there's an honest coincidence, and then there's a purposeful coincidence.

I hope it stays up. I just discovered it after reading this thread the other night. Pretty good site to have.

Bob is one the most fine and upstanding inviduals in the Hobby. His contributions speak for themselves regardless of what happens to the web site.

Its still down for me, anyoine eles not able to get on it?

:( Yeah, I still can't either. I see that some were able to yesterday but I tried again when I got to work and still was not able. Oh well, hopefully Bob won't close down totally. It was a great reference site.

Jeff

This is a quote from Bob's post earlier in the day:

*****************************

http://ns1.nwecs.org/howorld/pages/pageone.html

OK, here's the deal. For some reason, the Domain got "lost". The people
who sold me the domain have reinstated it. Now, the servers across the
world need to update. This can take 48 hours, depending on when all the
servers run their updates. That means, if you recycle your browser, by
sunday, 8am, PST, http://howorld.net (http://howorld.net/) will work again. That's why some
of you have it working already, some do not. For now, the above link
gets you to the site.

Sorry for this amazing stroke of bad luck, but it happens. Thanks for
your patients.

Later
SCB

The Best HO Slot News and Information
http://howorld.net (http://howorld.net/)
howorld@c... (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/howorld/post?postID=VuGjuEPdageryTP9RWMFCa_LqssgumeApdnJNt L2UW1kdeekQh2N2KxM5loQVQvzDyq-PQttxn2WQLYhUsI)

***********************************

I wouldn't accuse the guy of any wrongdoing. I've never met him personally, but from my experiences with him on the HOWL bulletin board and a few emails we've exchanged, I'd say he's a stand-up guy.

--rick

its up :)

:thumbsup: Rick, Thanks for the "temp" link. And GoodWrench, yes I saw your post and tried and it is back up again. Thanks guys.


Jeff