I'd long heard about the entire Paul Winchell's LA tv kid show series Winchell Mahoney Time being wiped, a lot of Johnny Carson's Tonight, ALL or most of Earnie Kovak's great series, Merv Griffin's and other classic talk shows....where variety arts and entertainment was included (not the damned issue stuff like on Maury and Springer, etc), apparently the great plaque to the studio brass of the 80's to today as they seem to detest such fare, were wiped too.

Well it gets worse. It seems that Metromedia had ALL of their NYC TV station's 60's and 70's kid shows wiped which included WONDERAMA, SOUPY SALES and others. Probably other old favorites that were'nt kid shows too.

After I knew this it occured to me that maybe many stations all across the nation did this wiping so don't be surprised to find out your beloved BOZO shows are gone, other local kid shows, many Captain Kangaroos, 70's ZOOM and other PBS shows. I wonder if most of Sesame Street survives as it dates back to the 60's?

It seems that the only vintage shows that survive are sitcoms, dramas, action, cartoons and old movies and possibly not all of them. I wish My Mother The Car, My World and Welcome To It and Captain Nice exist but who knows? You wonder if any of Ed Sullivan exists BEYOND the rock music acts that seem to survive?

I have to think much of our old variety, talk and kid show TV programs across the country are lost forever.

Os

I thought that Ernie Kovak's Wife had all his old shows. I read an interview a few years back where she said that she was working on them, to get them released.

David.

TRIO ran "My Mother The Car" about a year ago. You've got to remember that there's a big difference between programming that was produced by the networks, and programming that was produced by your local affiliate. There was also a big difference between programs that were broadcast "live" - like "Your Show of Shows", and programs that were shot on film in a studio and then broadcast over the airwaves. "I Love Lucy" was shot on film in a studio. That's why the series survives. "Your Show of Shows" was broadcast live from a theater - before the advent of videotape - which is why much of that show hasn't survived. Most kiddie shows in the 50s and 60s were local and were broadcast live - prior to the advent of videotape. In the early days of television - especially local television - nobody was thinking very much about the future history of television. I produced a documentary on North Carolina's local kiddie shows a few years back and you wouldn't believe what a detective job it was just to find a few snippets of film, kinescope, or videotape of these shows when they were in their heydey. I had to leave a couple of fondly remembered and popular shows out of the documentary because there literally wasn't any extant footage of the program. The few local kiddie shows that lasted into the 70s or 80s have a better chance of having been archived to some degree on videotape but often that videotape is in horrible shape itself or was recorded on a format that no longer exists anymore. The other factor against the preservation of early local programming is that since the late 70s, large corporations have bought up the local affiliates left and right, brought in new management who fired all the local people who built the stations from the ground up and who had true ties to the community, knew the station's history, and who would have been much more inclined to save what old footage there was. What footage had survived was literally thrown into the trash bin on many occasions.

I heard about Kovak's wife trying to do that YEARS ago. The reason she was was b/c they were wiping a lot of Ernie's shows. I don't know how she did with that.

Os

The only reason Mother the Car survives is b/c it's a sitcom. I would'nt bet the whole series exists though unless only six episodes were done. With the long history of this show being ridiculed, I'm surprised it's shown anywhere!

Bob McAllister's stint on Wonderama (if it predates him) were taped, WNET? in NYC did this show and I assume Metromedia was a network. I guess taping network shows was widespread by the late 60's. I wish some of Bob Bell's Bozo (Chicago?) survived but I don't know when his were done. I only knew of him in the past year! They say he was the best Bozo danged near.

Only ONE Bozo's show is on dvd, some of it at any rate, that I heard about, the Boston Bozo I think. I don't know if it's the complete series but a dvd set came out of the 70's Howdy Doody comeback show. I wonder how many monster movies exist, especially foriegn ones we never see in the USA?

Os

What ever happened to Sonny Fox?

I'm still mad about the amount of GREED associated with WKRP and the music included!

Willard Scott was a great Bozo back on WRC in Washington DC in the early 1960's before he did the early Ronald McDonald.

Sonny Fox's NYC show was one of the ones I read that got wiped/trashed/whatever. I see Red Skelton's show stuff on dvd but I wonder just how much survives now?

Heck, I even have on dvd 50's 3 Stooges TV stuff and an Ed Wynn show. I just can't help thinking the great brain suits trashed a lot of the old variety shows in the 80's in their quest to get more video tape and to make more storage space.

Os

I would imagine that if ANY of these shows survive today, they would be on kinescopes. I've come across many quad tapes from the late 50's and 60's that were not stored properly, and the oxide just sheds right off the tape when you try to play it.

I've seen some of this with other open-reel video formats as well - one-inch type B and C, and 1/2-inch open-reel especially. The type B and C hold up extremely well, if stored under proper conditions. However, the type B's are very hard to come by (machine-wise).

I would imagine that if ANY of these shows survive today, they would be on kinescopes. I've come across many quad tapes from the late 50's and 60's that were not stored properly, and the oxide just sheds right off the tape when you try to play it.

I've seen some of this with other open-reel video formats as well - one-inch type B and C, and 1/2-inch open-reel especially. The type B and C hold up extremely well, if stored under proper conditions. However, the type B's are very hard to come by (machine-wise).

Yeah, quad is generally awful for the reasons you stated. Finding a quad machine that is still functional these days is a miracle too. One show that was recorded on quad that looks quite good on DVD is the Dan Curtis produced "The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyl & Mr. Hyde" produced for ABC in 1968. It's nearly flawless. The Ed Sullivan Beatles DVD looks pretty good too although there is some quad banding. A good place to look for the older format machines these days is eBay. When I produced that documentary on North Carolina's kiddie shows, I ended up transferring archival material from 16 mm film, 16mm kinescope, 8mm home movies, quad tape, 3/4 tape, VHS, and Betamax.

The Bob Bell Bozo shows were done at WGN channel 9 in Chicago and a lot of them survived.

They are now at the Chicago Museum of Broadcasting.

Great, I WANT some Bob Bell Bozo on dvd!!!
Krusty the Clown just is'nt the same.

Os

Sonny Fox's NYC show was one of the ones I read that got wiped/trashed/whatever. I see Red Skelton's show stuff on dvd but I wonder just how much survives now?
Os

I saw an interview with him years ago (the 80's), he said that he owns all his old shows. The reason that they were not syndicated was because he wouldn't let them cut the shows, they had to be shown uncut. There were no takers. :lol:

David.

Now that Red's gone,if he did'nt have surviving family, I wonder who might own the shows? Someone's got to b/c there's dvds. NO special edition ones though.

I heard Donny owns all the Doony & Marie shows. I don't know if any are on TV. He was offering a pair of videos of the show years ago, all excerpts, no complete shows.
Os