Enterprise returns friday with new episodes. Looked at synopises of future episodes. There's a two parter where the Klingons capture Flox and take him to their homeworld to help with a crisis that threatens their species. Why Kingons look different now than they did in TOS will be explained. Plague? Part two is titled "Divergence". Evolution? A "splitting off"? Genetic engineering gone haywire?

Why. remember Gene Roddenberry saying that for TMP he wanted the Klingons to look alien...more so than the limited TV budget allowed.

Didn't Worf say the differences between the old and new Klingons was something "one does not speak about" in one episode on ST:TNG, and hinted it was an embarassing or shameful issue?

In the pilot of "Enterprise" didn't we already see a Klingon that was TNG-style instead of the TOS "ming" look?

I quite watching "Enterprise" after the Ferengi episode, (Though I tuned in for the Brent Spiner return and 'cause people were saying it was getting better), so if it's been dealt with or the Klingons reappeared I haven't heard about it...

Gene's comment was to justify the change in the first place - TMP had a bigger makeup budget than TOS, so someone decided to splurge.

Worf's comment was in the DS9 episode "Trials & Tribbleations" where the DS9 crew went back in time to the TOS episode "The Trouble With Tribbles".

Yes, all the Klingons in ENT have had the "modern" look.

This 2 parter is another of Manny Coto's attempts to pull ENT back in line with the "proper" Trek continuity. It worked with the Vulcan arc, and the 3-parter with Spiner ties into Khan and the Eugenics Wars, so this one should be at least on par with those.

Since the Worf style Klingon is the way they've always looked something must happen to temporarily change their appearance for a couple of generations. Since something is threatening the Klingons with extinction maybe Flox saves them by combining klingon and human DNA. That would definately be something the kingons would be ashamed off and not want to discuss. The human DNA could be altered so that it dies off or "breeds out" in a couple generations at which time the crisis threatening the klingons will have passed.

I still think it's unnecessary to make an excuse, and MY explaination is, of course, the most logical ;) - that the Klingon Empire is obviously made up of many different planets, and not every Klingon soldier is from the homeworld. It doesn't stretch the imagination to believe that Kang, Koloth, Kor and their krews were from a world within the Empire other than Quo'nos. Just as the Roman Legions absorbed troops from countries they conquered; just as the Soviet Army consisted of Georgians, Russians and Mongols; just as the US Army in the 40s had black units and Nissai units.

B&B made a figgin HUGE mistake with Enterprise, starting right off with the Ridgey Klingons and not taking the opportunity to start off with the Smoothies, leaving the door open for this story.

I still think it's unnecessary to make an excuse
Agreed.
MY explaination is, of course, the most logical ;) - that the Klingon Empire is obviously made up of many different planets, and not every Klingon soldier is from the homeworld. It doesn't stretch the imagination to believe that Kang, Koloth, Kor and their krews were from a world within the Empire other than Quo'nos.
Except ... that doesn't explain why we see Kang, Koloth and Kor with the new makeup on DS9.

Qapla'

SSB

And there is the Kahless problem. In the TOS episode "The Savage Curtain," we see Kahless who has the same "smoothy" makeup as every other Klingon in the series. When we see him (or his clone) in TNG he has the ridges, as does every depiction of him such as Worf's sculpture.

There's also the problem that in the DS9 episode, it was established that it was not common knowledge that Klingons at one time didn't have the ridges. And the fact that the alien recreates Kahless without ridges seems to indicate that in Kirk's time, it wasn't known that Klingons used to have ridges. Or even that some of them do if you go by this theory.

Personally, I use the Watson War Wound rule. For those not familiar with the Sherlock Holmes stories, in the first story Watson reveals that he was wounded in the arm in Afghanistan. Holmes even makes a remark about this when he first meets him. However, in the next story, the wound has moved to his leg. In a later story, he just makes a remark about it being "in one of my limbs." There are a lot of theories that try to explain this. (My favorite is that the real location was somewhere a good Victorian wouldn't mention. This is supported by the fact that Watson was apparently married three times yet produced no children.) The fact of the matter is that Arthur Conan Doyle simply didn't consider this an important detail and didn't bother to make sure all his stories agreed 100%. In STAR TREK, starting with TMP, there has been a different view of the Klingons which has been consistently carried through all future series. (And I'm not talking about just there appearance. The new Klingons act very differently from those in TOS.) Yes, it conflicts with what we saw earlier, but I think the producers (and not just B&B) would say there are a lot more important things they have to worry about.

Look at all the differences in Earth people. By Sci-Fi rules we should all have the same hair and skin color.

Ancient Aztecs Ruling class purposely tied boards to their babies heads, so that the foreheads would be flat and thereby proving their superiority to the masses.

We 'know' what Egyptians look like, yet many ancient pharoahs were African.

I just hope the explanation doesn't suck.

The excuse I enjoyed when the first movie came out is that the Klingons got their asses kicked so hard by the Federation that it shoved their spinal columns up over the tops of their heads.

Didn't Worf say the differences between the old and new Klingons was something "one does not speak about" in one episode on ST:TNG, and hinted it was an embarassing or shameful issue?
Right! And it was a great little inside joke in an episode that was full of them. It should have been left that way


I still think it's unnecessary to make an excuse... Completely agree, but for a different reason. Have you ever seen Olivier's Henry V? If you haven't, give it a try. Then watch Branagh's. What we're dealing with here isn't much different except in this case our's are plays about the future, the same future, produced at different times with a different approach to representing that future. I know its a little like saying, "its just a show", but my take is with genuine respect for the material. I think it serves the material very very poorly to even be drawn into explaining something that is outside of the actual context of the saga.

John O.

Look at all the differences in Earth people. By Sci-Fi rules we should all have the same hair and skin color.

Actually that statement isn't far from the truth.

Depending on your religious or scientific beliefs, it is generally accepted that our form of human started in one central area of the planet. At that time, they all pretty much looked alike. But as they multiplied and spread accross the surface of the earth (and also got seperated from each other) started to evolve in their own ways that have brought out all the different types of races that we enjoy today.

Sure there was some interacial breeding occasionally as peoples travled to distant lands, or conquered other nations etc. But nothing on a giant scale.
Even intentional racial segragation have generally kept people apart.

But all of that is changing drastically especially in the last centuary. Look at how commonplace international travel is becoming. Companys send their employees to work in other countrys for long periods of time. And marrying 'outside' of your race is becoming less taboo. Lets face it, the planet is MUCH smaller than it was 1,000 years ago.

So what will the next 1,000 years bring? It has long been my belief that if these trend continue and become even more commonplace, that international and interacial breeding will bring humanity BACK TOGATHER again. There will be very LITTLE geographical differences and appearences between people.
And so yes indeed ALL people from our planet in a 1,000 years could all look pretty much alike.......

Unless of course genetic engineering totally takes over and all women look like Pam Anderson, Halle Barry, Tyra Banks, Jenna Jamisons and even a few Susan Olivers:p .

Kang, Kor and Koloth on DS9 were a major screw-up as far as I'm concerned. they should have gone with the smoothy look and just not explained it. Or had Dax mutter something about cosmetic surgery. Especially since Original Koloth appeared in Trials and Tribble-ations.

Kahless in the Savage Curtain can be easily explained away - He was an illusion drawn from Kirk's imagination, and Kirk only knew about smoothies at the time.

Kang, Kor and Koloth on DS9 were a major screw-up as far as I'm concerned. they should have gone with the smoothy look and just not explained it.Liike that would make better sense than what they did: Give them bumpy heads and not explain it? C'mon, what were they honestly supposed to do? After TMP, all Klingons have been represented with brow ridges and, ya know, that hair thing Klingons now have. If you look at it as an interpretation, you'll sleep better. Personally, I got a kick out of seeing those actors in their modern Klingon get up and how each was tailored to the characters we we're already familiar with. I'd bet, except for 4 hours in a make-up chair, the actors got a kick out of it too. Was it a continuity problem? Only if you think that what is coming off the screen at you is a perfect visual record of future history. I think NOT!

John O.

Liike that would make better sense than what they did: Give them bumpy heads and not explain it? C'mon, what were they honestly supposed to do? After TMP, all Klingons have been represented with brow ridges and, ya know, that hair thing Klingons now have.
Yeah, and we have heard, several times, words to the effect that they always would have looked that way (or at least something different from the original look) had they had the time and money to do so.

Youi mentioned an idea and then said it seems close to the "It's just a show" argument in some ways, although you wouldn't go that far. My take is that, of course, Star Trek is certainly NOT just a show -- but at the same time it is inarguably a show, and there are times we must be willing to make allowances for that fact. To me, this is one of those times -- they look different because the makeup changed. I love finding ways to explain apparent inconsistencies as much as any other fan -- so long as those explanations make sense. I've never heard one for the Klingon change that passes that test. They all include some critical supposition that makes you ask, "But why would the Klingons ever do such a thing?" That, or they depend upon a ridiculously unlikely chain of events that sound every bit as contrived as they are.

Had Enterprise started with Klingons of the original look, it simply would have meant that canon was that Klingons once did not have the bumpy heads, and then later they did. The only difference now is to say they had the bumpy heads, then they did not, and then later still they did (because DS9 had already established that the smooth-headed Klingons did exist at one point).

I hope the explanation they use is sensible and plausible. They've done good things lately, so my hunch is that they would only make the attempt because they think they've come up with a good answer.

Qapla'

SSB

Liike that would make better sense than what they did: Give them bumpy heads and not explain it? C'mon, what were they honestly supposed to do? After TMP, all Klingons have been represented with brow ridges and, ya know, that hair thing Klingons now have. If you look at it as an interpretation, you'll sleep better. Personally, I got a kick out of seeing those actors in their modern Klingon get up and how each was tailored to the characters we we're already familiar with. I'd bet, except for 4 hours in a make-up chair, the actors got a kick out of it too. Was it a continuity problem? Only if you think that what is coming off the screen at you is a perfect visual record of future history. I think NOT!

John O.

Ah, yes, but on the very same show (DS9), we saw a younger Koloth with a SMOOTHIE forehead! How does one explain that within the continuity of the same series?

(And I'm still trying to figure out where the youngest child, Henry, went on this season of "Grounded for Life!" :lol: )

How about the Romulan head lumps and the animated Andorian antennae? Or should I start a couple more threads? :devil:

(And I'm still trying to figure out where the youngest child, Henry, went on this season of "Grounded for Life!" )

The same place as richie cunningham's older brother went on Happy Days, or Georges brother on Seinfeld (never seen but talked about).

Ah, yes, but on the very same show (DS9), we saw a younger Koloth with a SMOOTHIE forehead! How does one explain that within the continuity of the same series?That's just it, you don't even try. As Scott rightly notes, anything anyone has come up with thus far hasn't made anything like sense. It was brought up in the bar and Worf slammed the door on it - end of discussion. I thought that was really well done: they delt with the inconsistency by pointing it and then took the whole issue off the table by simply blowing it off with a joke. Very very smart and very DS9.

John O.

Gene's comment was to justify the change in the first place - TMP had a bigger makeup budget than TOS, so someone decided to splurge.

Worf's comment was in the DS9 episode "Trials & Tribbleations" where the DS9 crew went back in time to the TOS episode "The Trouble With Tribbles".

Yes, all the Klingons in ENT have had the "modern" look.

This 2 parter is another of Manny Coto's attempts to pull ENT back in line with the "proper" Trek continuity. It worked with the Vulcan arc, and the 3-parter with Spiner ties into Khan and the Eugenics Wars, so this one should be at least on par with those.

I agree with John P's take on it--there are just different looking Klingons just as there are different looking humans. And frankly I don't give a shit what Coto does because ENT has been so off the rails before that it carries zero weight and credibility with me. Phewey on them.