Survival, of an HO slot car speedway... - HobbyTalk
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-06-2016, 11:15 PM Thread Starter
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Question Survival, of an HO slot car speedway...

Over the years we have seen many slot car tracks come and go. So many fond memories. So many good times. It's hard to believe that these kinds of experiences can be abandoned over time. Eventually, inevitably, not enough people darken the doors to keep them open. Yes, it's sad to watch all the assets divided up. All the fun go away.

It is natural in business and in life that things come and go, but, I have noticed a few things that these places seem to have in common. Could it be that the generally accepted basic business model of an HO speedway is wrong? These tracks are typically fashioned after the larger scale speedways(which also come and go). My observations have led me to conclude that an HO speedway MUST be different than a 24th scale speedway.

Now, Texas, is by no means a hub of slot car racing. I am sure you northern guys have seen every version of a slot car business that can be imagined. Surely, the savvy of many a slot car owner has led him to experiment with numerous implementations of slot car entertainment. But that is all water under the bridge now that the doors are closed. Perhaps, something has been missing all along...

It has been glaringly obvious to me over the years that HO racing has to contend with something that the larger scale tracks simply don't have to deal with. With HO, you can take your cars home and race on your own track... for free. You can take your cars to your friends house and race on his track... for free. You can get to together with people you barely know, who share the same love for slot car racing, and race with them on their track... for free. Indeed, in this era of modern technology and communication these types of encounters have been much more the norm. Networking is what keeps the slot car racing alive around here. What could a commercial HO speedway possibly have to offer? What could a commercial HO speedway possibly have to better the experience of the modern HO racer?

1. In this age of GoPro cameras, big screen TVs, camera phones and internet, there has to be an attractive package of goods an HO speedway would be able to offer, some sort of multi media extravaganza that would enhance the experience of the racer, the spectator, and the track owner.

2. Rent is a killer. Slot car racing takes room, lots of it. You almost need a small warehouse to make it the playhouse you want it to be. I can't tell you how many slot car/hobby shops I have seen go out because the terms of their lease changed, i.e. their rent went through the roof. Who can help it? How can you get around it? If you know a trick to obtaining large spaces for lease or to own, I'm sure someone reading this right now would like to know.

3. As a track owner, you count on a few revenue streams to pay the rent, lights, and hopefully have a little left over for your efforts. If you have been successful with the current accepted system, bravo! This is no rant against you, or anyone who makes the slot car world go around. But please, bear with me, and entertain a few thoughts... If you're a kid, wouldn't you like to have a place where you could grab your cars and go run for a few hours?... without the deterrent of having to pay for track time every 30 minutes, or running up a tab to the point you cant pay it, and cant go back? Race entree fee is one thing, controllers and car rentals is another, but track time? Where slot car racing is established, it is the acceptable custom, but where HO slot car racing is not, track time is never going to happen. Kids these days dont pay for the music they download, much less for a hobby they are trying out. I've seen newbies rent track for 15 minutes, crash crash crash crash crash, cant quite get the hang of it. "Okay, that'll be $5." Then the kid decides he doesnt like it, and walks away, forever. That's one way there are less tracks open today than 20 years ago. My suggestion, is to somehow make a new track successful, without track time.

Now is the greatest time to own slot cars. There are more cars and more products for HO cars than ever before. Shouldn't speedways be booming? Isn't there a way to have the freedom to run all these cars a products in more places than ever before?

Of course, every track is different, every one has their own way of making things work. It's what makes us Americans. Let us now experiment politely with ideas, and opinions. Maybe we can discover a new theory of operation, a dawn of a new slot car age...

That's your cue...

What are your thoughts?

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-07-2016, 11:49 PM
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i know you asked this over at SI.

now i ran my own hobby shop and i had tracks in the 1990s.
i ran and owned tracks in 2 different states at different times.

I've actually answered similar threads here on hobbytalk in the R/C section.

Here is the hard truth; The business model is not viable with a shrunk and shrinking customer base.

the only way to keep the doors open is you have to own the building outright and basically run at a loss just because it is something you want to do to stay busy.

the best situation where this works is a professional Home track where you attend by invitation only.

I know many slot car people that do this, they have a large basement at home, constructed a large professional grade track, and you have to kind of find out and then get yourself invited for a door interview. based on that you either in or out because you don't want the entire public coming into your personal house.


everything has been tried over the years to keep a track open and making money this is impossible with the customer base i mentioned. there is simply not enough traffic nor will people pay you enough to make it work.

usually there is one track left in the dumps of town somewhere and he is just hanging on running at a loss because it is his retirement and to keep from basically dying. I have seen it happen somebody tries to open competition and basically both go under from the split business. Even when they try and work together people just pick sides and both lose.

in R/C there are more compounded issues then slots depending on the type of racing going on. example you try to run and offroad track in a rental or lease space, the dirt and water will wreck the interior space in a couple of weeks. this is why offroad had to evolve away from dirt and onto AstroTurf carpet tracks which everyone hates and more business gets lost. not that the kids go to the park since playing online at home is easier but many cities have passed laws that you cannot just take a R/C car to the park and tear it up. Drones are on the chopping block now.

but getting back to the slots... the money maker will be the full hobby shop that you will have to open to get people coming in. the Track will run at an operational loss no matter what you do.
this is because you would need a constant influx of customers to keep up the rotation of people that will pay for a practice session or race day.

can you imagine 500 people walking into the track paying 10$ a head? cause that would be the only way to maybe cover half a months expenses in a lease or rental space.

the truth is 2-5 people will walk in per week for the track. 20$-50$ is not covering your lunch anymore.

hobby shops in general today do not make money they have been cut off by everyone thanks to the manufacturer selling direct to the customers now. you cannot expect to sell a 20$ item where it already cost you 30$ with shipping to add a 20% markup so you can Eat and keep the lights on, when the manufacturer offers the same 30$ deal to the customer directly behind your back. it was bad in 1998 when i dumped my hobby shop imagine it now. and no the manufacturers will not even cut a special for hobby owners with registered seller IDs so you can actually make a profit, they do not care at all. Horizon, great planes, etc all screw you and don't care because they sell to the customer directly. years ago this was not the case only a dealer could sell to the customer and the markup was expected, internet changed all that for good and bad.

So you open a hobby shop and turn 100,000$ into 25,000 in a couple of months is basically what happens because the hobby is dead in general the public has changed, you may not have everyone around you has.
Thus there is no way a steady stream of 100 people are going to come into the store daily.

my local hobby guy is retired he keeps the store open so he has something to do, it makes no money, maybe 2-5 people walk in during the week and 10 people on Saturday. they want parts for stuff they bought online usually you should hear him lose his temper on these potential customers so he turned 10 people into 8 people the next week. if somebody spends 1200$ on a drone he basically makes 20$ and maybe another 20$ charging them for checking out the drone when it comes in and setting up the GPS for them. in 5 more years he will not be there since hes in his late 70s and dying from documented agent orange lung cancer from being a marine in Vietnam.

the largest hobby shop in the area that actually has slot cars to sell is on the brink of chapter 11 as i spoke to the owner. they used to have a slot car party room in the basement. it lost so much money for kids birthday parties that it was smarter to close it down and turn the lights off and stop advertising it. they used to have a Full R/C track in the basement that was another bad investment as the hobby changed REALLY drastically in about 2002. down ward spiral and Brushless forced the track to close.


thus you are left with an expensive space that you have to pay for each month,, a cheaper space is possible in the worst part of town guaranteeing nobody will come as they don't want to get robbed at gun point(seen this also) and not enough customers to ever make the money you need.

Events that get organized at say a hotel or school are different they don't happen that often and usually they are prepaid for by the people attending, but they have to come from all over even another country to fill in the amount of people you need. thus you come back to the home model, which limits you to how the guy that built the track wants it. his house his rules.
nobody does HO scale since larger scale is much easier to deal with and had a larger player base.

so
1) you want all that you can buy an ANKI system the kids will go nuts and when done you throw it in the closet for next thanksgiving.
2) yup,,,, one guy built a portable setup, one guy gets space from his local church once a month. there is no real commercial options unless you own the building and have wasted space in a warehouse which really makes no sense.
3) find a kid with 20-50$ in his pocket that he gives you for the privilege of driving for an hour now find 100 more of them to keep the lights on.
at the end i remember having to charge 25$ for practice all day one payment and 35$ for a RACE night or 100$ for a nationals. per head.
you can imagine the number of people i had to turn away because it was cheaper to keep the electric off in the back where the track was. they wouldn't spend money in the store anyway they just drove in cause they thought the track was free to use.

let see i tried piggybacking an arcade on the business to make money (well consoles killed that idea after about 1994), food; selling hot and cold hell i made more money off the local contractors coming in to buy a sandwich from my non-existent racers, they all said i should just open a bodega and be done with the hobby non-sense. at this point there was still some money in the hobby shop end of things but the writing was on the wall and bank accounts. for me it was basically something to do i made some Bank in the computer industry so i needed a way to indulge in my hobby and make some money. the Heyday was from 1989-1994, a slow slide into 1997 and then get out asap before 2000 as things really changed.


but every couple of years i watch somebody try and then come to the same conclusions too late.

in the northeast things are the hardest. easiest is south west. California is almost as bad as the east but since the weather is nice year round they get more traffic.
south there is no money and north there is no interest really, least in the R/C end of things. Kids are non-existent now in the hobby it is all middle age adults just trying to relieve the glory days.
anytime a parents buys something the kid is interested for about 2 weeks then it goes in the trash or closet or ebay so there is no parts business to speak of. plus they would buy it online with free shipping instead of you.

AFX did a good job of screwing the hobby owners the last couple of years so many of the shops left sell carrera/SCX etc , 1/32 is the most popular, nobody even asks for the HO scale tracks or cars.

anyhoo not what you wanted to hear but it is the hard truth.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-08-2016, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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Actually Dan, this is precisely what I want to hear. Thank you for a superb write up of your experiences. It's the best I've seen on either site. This is invaluable insite from someone who actually succeeded maintaining a track facility for a number of years. It's the kind of information anyone wanting to start a track needs to know.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-08-2016, 09:45 AM
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I do not disagree with SlotcarDan's reply, but a hobby shop can work. But you can't do hobby alone, let alone a slot track, anymore and have a successful business model. I've been in the hobby business for decades, from retail, advertising, manufacturing, wholesale, etc. So I've seen all of the angle the business has. In today's market, and I'm not trying to get political here, our economy is not generating "disposable" income like we had prior to 1990. That means competition for how we spend that those funds are fiercer than ever. I ran a "hobby shop" for 13 years and had to change the model 3 times. Originally it was a hobby and bicycle shop. We added sporting goods and fishing supplies for a while. That was changed to toys and games, hobby and bikes. But toys have a horrible profit margin and when Toys R Us moved into town, the market in toys collapsed. So we added cards and gifts and college fan wear. In the end, the store was hobbies, toys, gifts, cards and college wear. That gave us a busy wave every month with no slow times. We also sold fireworks in July, costumes in October. We kept the customers coming back to the familiar sales team. In the end, the business grew 1200% in 5 years and stayed level through 1993. The absent owners (a retired couple) then sold the store to other interests who changed the model and the store closed 14 months later. Hobbies were always (except in May-Mother's Day) the biggest money maker. Plastic models and slot cars were the biggest movers. But a model car was $7 then. Now they are $20-25 and you still need tools, glue and paint. Why bother building it? A diets ready to sit on the shelf is right there for the same price as the kit with no glue or paint. I think the market out priced itself and the manufacturers don't care as long as they see the Keynesian margins. No one wants to generate more, only just enough.

Anyway, it can work, but it takes far more than it used to and most would not want that adventure. I may retire back to that world, but only if the economies improve and I see people with some extra in the pockets again. Things are still too tight I think. After all, hobbies are not some we "have to have" but that we like to have.

-Paul
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-08-2016, 01:14 PM
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I could write novels on the subject there are many angles to this. the biggest change is in the wants of the society today. Kids from the late 1980s to today do not have any interest in the hobby as we remember it.

they do not build models, do not fly rockets, heck go to a park today you don't even see kids playing, baseball, handball, basketball, they don't even use the swings. in fact if you see a child at the park today people call the cops. Couple that with the fall of the dollar and everything is an import today. all the Made in the USA hobby companies were sold off to china distributors in the late 1990s early 2000s.

This is how screwed up things are in one generation.
Maryland 'free-range' parents under fire again - CNN.com

I've overheard numerous conversions of grandparents taking grandchildren to the hobby shop to help try and keep the hobby going and the kids have zero interest in it. Trains, cars, planes they just sit on the phone face-booking or trading memes.

I also attempted a business model of a portable r/c track with rentals for parties. it was a disaster. you might of seen something similar like a carnie game


i also attempted something more professional then this equally a disaster as a party rental. and i even went into micro scale for a while.


I have a ton of different micro scale track layouts with Transponder systems from those days.

On the hobby front the early 1990s was the peak.

you have models that have to retail for 50$ now people put them back on the shelf.

AMT slotcars; remember they re-released those 8 retro kits? originally they wanted to have more AMT cancelled them after the second generations. well hobby shops had to retail them for 56$ to make a profit. you could get them online for 30$. cuts you right out of business.

even hobby lobby closed down in my area.

so you have the last (generation Y) up and coming generation with no want or time for hobbies and the next generation taking that and running with it(millennials).
I'm generation X so we were the last to fully get into the hobby.

the last change to the hobby to try and lift it was RTR kits(ready to run) or called Expert kits, these are all assembled ready to go planes/helis/cars the idea was "oh it must be a time thing that people don't have any more as a reason the sales are down" so the traditional kit was replaced with RTR which i think made it worse because before you felt more invested in the hobby, it turned into a Bic pen mentality use it up and throw it out buy another one.

the technology has gotten flat out amazing in the last 20 years so that is not the problem, cost wise it stayed the same(factor inflation) but society is different now.

you do not fix something today, you return it they give you a new one. Nobody is tinkering anymore they want instant satisfaction and basically that is the virtual world.

When i bring over my slot car set for my nephews and cousins at the grandparents house they love it because the grandparents don't have an xbox or Wii but when they go home they go right on those devices or their Ipads, this has led to numerous family infighting about how many hours the kids spend online and how out of balance things are yet the school makes it worse since they put all the stupid lessons online and the textbooks are all online or on CDS also.

my uncle ran a hobby shop in Pennsylvania right next to the university so it ran in the family as i would spend summers there helping and learning the business. i had massive at home issues so the hobby saved me and i got into being a professional racer for about 20 years starting very young. i lived in numerous states and always the hobby helped ground me so i love it, i love going into hobby shops but things change.

I walked in both worlds as well since i'm a computer scientist/geologist and worked for IBM, Activision games, etc.. so i did analog and digital. i worked in the oil and gas industry briefly as well, and i raced 1:10/1:12 and even 1:1 off-road and sprint cars for a short time.

it is very much like what happened to the music industry.

ALL THINGS MUST PASS
All things must pass.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-08-2016, 01:29 PM
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if you have not seen the buzz-a-rama video check it out

also this is not true as there is another slot car track on long island. i went there once the owner was rude so i left.

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-08-2016, 01:50 PM
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One way I thought a commercial race track could survive here in the northeast would be to combine a summer and winter facility.

As I was driving past a golf range one day the thought occurred to me. This place was idled during the winter, which would be the exact time slot car racing would be at it's peak. So combining the two would allow the facility to remain open all year. During the summer the slot track would probably be idle while the driving range was active. In the winter, the track (and possibly other indoor type activities) would allow the facility to remain open. And most golf ranges are simply a small building with a lot of land.

Just a thought.

Joe
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-08-2016, 02:03 PM
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I used to participate in the Buzz-a-Rama auctions in the 80's and used to race in the HOMIR (HO Mail In Racing) events in the 70's. You would think with the Internet posting, one could get something like that going. I mean we did it on a monthly basis, waiting on the mail to get updates. So you sent in a car, waited 3-4 weeks and got your car and race results back and maybe a prize if you placed. I run the education program Racing to the Future™ using slot cars to promote learning physics, engineering and math. We have about 90 schools in KY with drag strips in the classroom, participating in the program. We had over 100 3-12th grade students building and racing their cars this year at our state championship. And we have groups in 15 other states doing this in youth clubs and other venues like 4H. But that's not a business model. But it does show you can get kids interested and keep them involved. I have students that have raced in our program all 9 years it has run so far. I've written reference letters for their college applications showing their involvement in the racing program. So you can get the kids to race and build. But it takes heroic effort to overcome the other things out there that can distract them. That's what I used to do in the hobby shop years ago. There are no "hobby-shop" experts in the stores today. If you go in and ask about how to do "x" you get a blank stare. I think that has hurt the hobby business as well. And Dan you are correct, All Things Pass. It's sad, but very accurate.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-08-2016, 02:07 PM
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I keep thinking about going back into thee business at the retail level. But I would have to combine Interent sales with brick and mortar. I don't think a hobby oriented business could survive any other way. And it would have to be diversified to cover the off season for hobbies (May through August). Maybe in the next couple of years after my youngest is out of school and I can assume a little risk. I can see me b being the "old man behind the counter".

-Paul
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-08-2016, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandcheapskate View Post
One way I thought a commercial race track could survive here in the northeast would be to combine a summer and winter facility.

As I was driving past a golf range one day the thought occurred to me. This place was idled during the winter, which would be the exact time slot car racing would be at it's peak. So combining the two would allow the facility to remain open all year. During the summer the slot track would probably be idle while the driving range was active. In the winter, the track (and possibly other indoor type activities) would allow the facility to remain open. And most golf ranges are simply a small building with a lot of land.

Just a thought.

Joe
It was and has been tried, in the winter you get even less traffic cause nobody wants to come out when the weather is gross. the best time of course ends up being just before Christmas when everyone gets nostalgic.
Thus November/December is peak which isn't much and then you have no revenue to stay open into march or may.

also this new hobbytalk forum software really sucks.

i run a hobby business out of my house in my spare time but it only works online since i cater to a small segment of people looking for specific items.

now there are small caches were the model works but there is already somebody hanging on doing it so if another tries to come in then it won't work.

southern California is still the r/c mecha because of year round good weather and cheaper open land towards Arizona. so you can pop some benches and carve out a track in the middle of nowhere and not be bothered,, doesn't work downtown LA etc.

upstate NY is a ghost town, so you could open something up there because the rent is low and have zero customers, then places like queens have impossible overhead but more traffic and it doesn't work there either. if an area has a balance then chances are somebody already tried the same thing there a couple of years ago and failed. used to be over 500 hobby shops on long island. there is like 5 now, there are ones that pivoted into sports shops or sell clothing something else to try and keep the lights on.

there used to be a bunch of dollhouse shops also,, now there is just 1. that was a big hobby that died also, and i used to make 1/12 scale dollhouses for people.




I floated onto SI for a minute i should add one thing that gets overlooked; the massive culture difference between the USA and the rest of the world.
Germany is a mecha for all hobbies, it is in the culture to apprenticeship and tinker slot cars is massive there although large scale, but it is the only country that still made SLOTLESS systems until digital took over in 2002 and even now Carrera servo is still really popular but it has now sunk back to home tracks not commerical.

UK/spain/france there is a much different presence to the hobby as well.

I go back to the Tower records documentary as a good example as tower records is still in Japan and does well because the homogeneous culture cares more about owning physical music recordings then digital this is the reverse of the north American culture. Just so many ways to look at the problem you could go as far as the breakdown of the American family how most parents have little interaction with the kids today. Me i was a latch key kid before that phrase was coined. my father did not teach me anything other then abuse so i didn't go to the park to play catch i went just to escape. Instead of drugs or other vices i turned to hobbies because i was always tinkering and fixing something. but today, parent comes home pissed off and tired to a kid asking questions so do they play slot cars with them? no throw them on the Xbox after they ask them if they finished homework which the kid lies and says yes so 5 hours blows by till bed time killing marines and aliens online. I'm a gamer too so i know how to waste 10 years in a game

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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 01:09 PM
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I am a long time on model railroad forums and there is frequently a post of another hobby shop closing.
I have been watching a lot of You Tube vidios of slot cars and many are old guys like me, few kids, the same with model railroading. But thats OK model railroading is doing well with old guys and they spend. I wish slot cars would become more popular with home tracks like model railroading.
I agree with NTx above about HO cars. I am not a businessman but it looks like to me the future of slot cars is home tracks but it sure would be nice to have a hobby shop nearby to buy parts, cars, track, and so on.
I live in the high population southern Calif. and the biggest hobby shop I know of in the area has a couple of slot car sets and thats all.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 11:29 AM
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I race with two clubs and it has been very difficult to recruit new members. Most of our new members have been people that were in the hobby as kids and were not aware that slot racing still existed. At one time there were many hobby shops in my area, there is now only one left and they have mostly gotten out of slots to focus on trains and R/C. I believe that the shop is still open because the owner owns the building and a small strip mall nearby. Last year Elmsford Raceway closed up, they had been in business for 50 years and had been a major Parma distributor. Consider that the NYC area has at least 10 million people living within a 30-40 minute drive. When I last visited Elmsford Raceways it was still in the basement of a large amusement arcade, which must have gotten them a lot of new customers. The place moved to a second location nearby that got flooded out, which may have prompted another move. My understanding is that at the end the store was only kept open by hosting birthday parties.
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