Frustration with model paint - am I in too much of a hurry? - HobbyTalk
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Frustration with model paint - am I in too much of a hurry?

It seems like Murphy's law has abounded with many of my current projects. Have any of you had similar experiences? I have about nine car bodies that I have been working on simultaneously in various stages of development. As of last weekend, there were three that had just received the primary paint and were waiting for the second color to go on: 1967 Bronco, 1958 Edsel, and 1970 AMC Machine.

With the Bronco, I forgot to wash the residue off prior to putting on the primer, which is a product made by Rustoleum designed to bond to most surfaces. There weren't any issues with the primer, so I painted the Ford Lunar Green and masked off the canopy. When I removed the tape, which was the green type I purchased at the auto paint store, it pulled off some of the primer. The primer doesn't come off with regular paint thinner, so I soaked the Bronco in lacquer thinner for five minutes while I painted the top on the Edsel. When I removed the Bronco, the body became so flexible that it wouldn't snap onto the chassis. I've waited two days and it still hasn't gassed completely out. Did the lacquer thinner permanently change the chemical structure of the resin or is there still hope that I can salvage the body?

With the Edsel, I chose two colors to go over the primer: Copper for the body and white for the top and trim. I painted the body first and let it sit for three days. I masked off the body to prepare for the white paint using the green tape. For whatever reason, the green tape left a sticky residue on the body when I removed it. I used some Goo Gone to try and gently remove the residue and it also removed the paint. The green tape has never done that before. Could it be that the metallic paint wasn't fully cured or is that the nature of metallic paint? If it wasn't fully cured, how long do you guys wait with metallic paint?

With the Machine, I had primered it and then saw a place on the body that needed some spot putty. I use Bondo spot putty as I like it's properties better than putty produced by Testors or Squadron. I applied a bit of putty to that spot, let it dry and sanded it. I chose not to reprimer that area because I thought that the Testors gloss white paint would cover it. It didn't. Is this normal? The paint consistency wasn't too thin and I thought would have covered it.

Any advice on these issues is welcome.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 06:00 PM
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Lots of thing could be and are going wrong.

What did you do with the bodies before you put the primer coats on?
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 06:25 PM
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2 cents

it is important to note that some brands of resin never stop leaching mold release.
even a seemingly perfect paint job can start getting bubbles under it days, weeks, months (ad nauseum) later.
I see where MFR is going with this and cleaning resin bodies completely is of utmost importance.
I think that Jim indicated he usually cleans the resin bodies well before painting and forgot to clean one of the three.
the other issues can be caused by many things.
removing a mask can often be assisted by tracing around the mask with a very sharp(new) hobby blade to cut the paint and not rely on the mask to do so.
also, paint types. many folks do not like enamel paints.
this seems to be personal preferences and I have used all types of base paints with some success.
I try to never mix types(base) of paints on one project.
I know many people who seal a color with clear before moving to the next color.

just for the record. orange paint does not like me.

interested in hearing other comments, opinions and suggestions.

I know this is not of much help, so I do hope the really good painters(not me) chime in here.

Wish You Were Here
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 06:25 PM
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Resin really needs to be cleaned THOROUGHLY before priming and before painting. I used to not think this was absolutely necessary until I had problems. For their resin car bodies, Modelhaus recommends soaking their castings in Super Clean for 24 hours. You really should soak it 24 hours too. Not half an hour. Not two hours. Then clean thoroughly with dish soap and water and then clean water. Of course if you don't wear rubber gloves you are just going to grease it all up again with your fingers.

Not all primers are equal. Primers for metal are intended to etch into metal and may or may not bite on resin. Myself, I have had good luck with Tamiya Fine White or Fine Grey surface primer, or Gunze Mr. Resin Primer spray. You get what you pay for.

What is low tack by hardware store standards may still be too tacky for use on a model. And, you should let the base coat of paint dry at least 24 hours if not longer, especially if it is a gloss paint. I let gloss stuff dry a week before masking. I use Tamiya tape and have no problems with lifting. I have also used Frog Tape's yellow color low tack tape. It is VERY similar to Tamiya tape. I't not exactly the same but very close in every way. And, it works fine.

There are different kinds of Goo Gone and some will strip and remove paint. I don't use that stuff on models. It's made for less refined applications like removing road tar from a bumper. Sanding is a good way to remove surface blemishes.

Be careful mixing brands of paint. Enamels and Lacquers, Hardware stuff versus Hobby stuff (usually more fragile), etc. I try to stick with ONE brand to avoid any compatibility issues.

Heavy solvents can permanently damage resin. Lacquer thinner, Oven Cleaner, Testors/Poly Scale ELO and other very harsh solvents can and will soften or melt resin. Once you screw it up, it is probably permanently ruined.

Super Clean will remove most paints given time. So will Purple Power Concentrate, a similar degreaser.

Resin should not leach out oils and if it does its either 1) cheap resin, 2) old resin, 3) poorly mixed resin. The casting will NOT get better no matter what you do to it. It will continue to week oils that will soak through paint and primer no matter what you do to it. If you get such pieces in a new kit, contact the manufacturer.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 11:00 PM
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Older tape can and will leave adhesive behind, and don't be too sure the 'new' tape you just bought is new. I ran into the problem all the time while in paint at the parts place. Most tape sits in hot warehouses way too long.

Lacquer thinner and resin? What I use to break down resins and epoxies of various types up so they can easily be removed off electrical parts like alternator rotor windings. I would NOT be putting any resin parts in it to soak.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 02:51 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of the input and advice. This is a learning process, I can see.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 03:11 AM
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We could be more specific to your questions - if we knew more on what and how you did things. Paint brands, dry times, etc.

You can do one at a time if it helps.

I have noticed the members over here in this section are pretty nice and helpful in helping people learn and improve their builds.

It seems to me you have recognized some of the potential issues already, but if you need more ideals or inputs - post them up!
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 11:01 AM
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shewwww I have been building models for 45 years and can still screw something up (usually by being in a hurry). If it seems like a dumb idea - it probably is. It's always better to search for an answer or ask questions FIRST (not that we do that but hey...) rather than have to say, "I did this and is it too late to fix it...?"
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Hilltop:

What I use has been upon the advice of a close friend and professional modeler, Fred Fritz. Fred builds primarily cars and F1 are his specialty. He has won many a IPMS show, usually taking 1st place in his category and Best of Show. I use pretty much the same paints that he does, as well as the same brand of airbrush, which is a Pasche. He likes the single action; I use the double action

Fred is the one that recommended primer that I have been using for resin models, which is the Rust-oleum Univerisal Bonding Primer. It lays down nicely through the airbrush and sands extremely well. It also is not removed with paint thinner, so lacquer thinner has to be used to remove it.

I use primarily Testors enamels as that is what I had in stock when I was painting/building styrene airplane and figure kits. Though they take longer to dry than acrylic, they seem to adhere well to the resin. With the airplanes and figure kits, I was using mostly flat enamels, so working with gloss is a new experience for me. Fred advised me to wait 3-4 days with gloss paints, so that is what I have done before handling the car body. I also use Alclad lacquer when coating chrome parts. Again, upon the advice of Fred, I use about 20 psi when applying it. I used to lay down Tamiya Gloss before applying the Alclad, but still didn't get great results - meaning really shiny. I got the same if not better results putting the Alclad on a gloss enamel. Fred does get great results and he says that it is all in the technique of "working it in," something I have achieved only on occasion.

I hope that answers some of your questions as to what I use.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 12:05 PM
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Thanks for the tips guys...Never tried soaking in Super Clean, wasn't sure if it would soften up the body...will experiment on some resin blems. Also not sure what type/brand of resin Modelhaus uses either.
Lacquer thinner will soften up resin, but the body will "possibly" harden back up, takes a couple of days. When I screw up a paint job, I dunk and swish it immediately in a bowl of of thinner while it's still on the paint stick, just long enough to get the paint off, then swish it in as bowl of water to rinse off the thinner, blow if off and let it dry. If it softens, just leave it alone for a few days, it may harden back up, then scrub it, rinse, and prime again...
Scrubbing...try some bathroom Softscrub, has a little grit to etch the body. Some use toothpaste, Comet, Westly's Bleachwhite, Dawn, etc.
Primer... I use Dupilicolor "High Build" for the most part, they also sell primer sealers in white, red oxide, grey, and black...
Paints... I use lacquer base paints, less headaches. Enamels take too long to dry, have had repaints screw up (the chemical reaction, blistering, wrinkling). You just have to be too careful with enamels. Lacquers you can water sand in 4 or 5 hours, repaint anytime, paint will bond good.
Tape...get you some Tamiya masking tape
Clears... I use lacquer clear on my custom decals as a top coat, so I can apply the decals, then recoat the whole car. I spray a clearcoat between colors, gives you some sanding room for overspray. Some use Future Floor Wax for their final finish. I also use an automotive basecoat clear finish. It's just how much time you want to put into it.
Hope this helps and as always, opinions will vary!!! Just gotta find what works for you. When in doubt, test first!!! RM
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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I think Hilltop's frustration with enamels is what I am currently experiencing. If you look at my recent Tucker post, I had no issues with removing the tape, etc. and it was painted the same day as the Edsel, also using Testors metallic paint. Apparently, not all Testors metallic enamels are created equal and, as I am learning, not all resin is created equal.

i generally clean my resin bodies with Purple Clean and it does a pretty good job. I never thought about soaking the body, but perhaps that is something that I should try. With the JF resin bodies, they take several cleanings before the primer will adhere. With the Alumilte resin that I bought and cast, the primer adhered easily, even without a cleaning. The Bronco was the first body that I had purchased from Jim's Custom Rods. I don't know what brand of resin that he was using, but it seems to be the most finicky. Perhaps that is the type that needs an overnight soaking with the Purple Clean.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 02:58 PM
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I dont have any experience with resin bodies and Super Clean, but I cannot emphasize enough the amazing results that I have had with it on metal and plastic diecast parts and model kits as both a cleaner and a striper!
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 07:33 PM
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Like I said, Modelhaus recommends soaking their car bodies in Super Clean for 24 hours... and it works.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 11:16 AM
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I have painted quite a few resin bodies and only had problems with a couple of them. Resin casters may use different types of mold release agents, or possibly none at all. If something like a vegetable oil is used that is fairly easy to remove if you use dish washing liquid and a little scrubbing. A silicone mold release is more difficult to remove, regular cleaners have little effect, so repeated cleanings might be necessary. Organic solvents are likely to work better, but there is the risk that they may attack the resin itself. The worst thing that can happen is that silicone is not only on the surface, it is actually mixed with the resin and will continue to leach out. That was the case with only one body that I painted, the paint wanted to "fisheye" and would not cover completely. I had to strip off my first try and wash repeatedly with denatured alcohol. I did not soak the body in the alcohol, I just dipped it and gave it a scrub three or four times before the paint wanted to adhere properly.
For masking jobs I use Tamiya tape. If I am going to use masking tape I always let the paint dry at least overnight before taping. Even with Tamiya tape I might get a little bleeding, even if I have been careful to burnish the edges. One trick is to shoot some clear to seal the edges before applying the color coat. One of these days I will have to try some Frog Tape, a little water is supposed to seal the edges when you use that and a less sticky version is available.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton Fox Racing View Post
I dont have any experience with resin bodies and Super Clean, but I cannot emphasize enough the amazing results that I have had with it on metal and plastic diecast parts and model kits as both a cleaner and a striper!
Hi YA'll!!

1) "Where" is "Super Clean" available at ??

2) I've had Great-Luck, using a small bowl w/ "DAWN" liquid dish soap.
Use an "Old" (softer & can get into those hard 2-get-2 places)
Electric Tooth-Brush.

go over the piece several times & Take Your Time doing so...
Rinse w/ warm running tap-water AND use the Tooth-Brush here as well..

ALSO; wipe-down the object, w/ rubbing alcohol (I use the 90% version)
several times...



Bubba (The Senile) 123

Last edited by Bubba 123; 04-17-2017 at 11:26 AM.
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